Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 9
The great 'living within our means' con
Topic Started: 8 Dec 2016, 11:05 AM (4,569 Views)
herbie
Member Avatar


"Saying things like "we have to live within our means" is telling voters the Government — which issues the dollar — can run out of its own money. But this is literally impossible.
Our means as a country we are limited to what we can produce using our effort, our skills and our technology.
The Government cannot spend without limit, or it will cause inflation.
But the Government cannot run out of money, and at times like this — when it saves instead of spending — the only thing that can make the economy grow is if we do the borrowing. And, unlike the Government, we as individuals can — and will — run out of cash."

"A bigger fiscal deficit right now would mean there was more demand. It would create more jobs. It would make businesses more profitable. It need not create a debt which ever needs to be repaid. And at the moment, it need not be inflationary.
"The Government has the incorrect impression that more government investment today means we are stealing from future generations, but this is nonsense," said Dr Mitchell.
"Investment in education, health, technology and infrastructure would provide real resources for future generations, and would provide secure jobs, business profits, and a more prosperous economy today.""

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-08/the-great-living-within-our-means-con/8064268
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Terry
Member Avatar


herbie
8 Dec 2016, 11:05 AM
"Saying things like "we have to live within our means" is telling voters the Government — which issues the dollar — can run out of its own money. But this is literally impossible.
Our means as a country we are limited to what we can produce using our effort, our skills and our technology.
The Government cannot spend without limit, or it will cause inflation.
But the Government cannot run out of money, and at times like this — when it saves instead of spending — the only thing that can make the economy grow is if we do the borrowing. And, unlike the Government, we as individuals can — and will — run out of cash."

"A bigger fiscal deficit right now would mean there was more demand. It would create more jobs. It would make businesses more profitable. It need not create a debt which ever needs to be repaid. And at the moment, it need not be inflationary.
"The Government has the incorrect impression that more government investment today means we are stealing from future generations, but this is nonsense," said Dr Mitchell.
"Investment in education, health, technology and infrastructure would provide real resources for future generations, and would provide secure jobs, business profits, and a more prosperous economy today.""

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-08/the-great-living-within-our-means-con/8064268
You think we should become a nation of data miners Jethro? How would that rub with you?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Ex BP Golly
Member Avatar


Seems to me govt debt is about where it should be. (Average for last 60-70 years).

Property speculators however have really phukd up.

Begging other to catch up won't fix the problem Herbie, as this chart shows:

Posted Image

You guys just have to cut your losses and run.

Can I suggest bankruptcy proceeding can help?
Edited by Ex BP Golly, 8 Dec 2016, 01:25 PM.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Trollie
Member Avatar


Ex BP Golly
8 Dec 2016, 01:21 PM
Seems to me govt debt is about where it should be. (Average for last 60-70 years).

Property speculators however have really phukd up.

Begging other to catch up won't fix the problem Herbie, as this chart shows:

Posted Image

You guys just have to cut your losses and run.

Can I suggest bankruptcy proceeding can help?
It's because you don't understand the monetary system that you don't see the lack of government debt is what's driving private debt.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Ex BP Golly
Member Avatar


Even if we take the average for predominantly property speculating public debt for last 60-70 years, property speculators would have to halve their debt levels of today, and would still be 4x govt debt!

Crazy ponzi surfing dimwits!
Such a monumental waste.
Trollie
8 Dec 2016, 01:27 PM
It's because you don't understand the monetary system that you don't see the lack of government debt is what's driving private debt.
Greedy knuckledragging filth like you is driving it.

If you control for global total war costs (WWI & WWII) govt debt is fairly stable and about where it should be.

Posted Image

As a society, we must restrain pricks like you Trollie, who threaten everything with your boundless greed and all encompassing laziness.
Edited by Ex BP Golly, 8 Dec 2016, 01:35 PM.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Trollie
Member Avatar


Ex BP Golly
8 Dec 2016, 01:28 PM
Even if we take the average for predominantly property speculating public debt for last 60-70 years, property speculators would have to halve their debt levels of today, and would still be 4x govt debt!

Crazy ponzi surfing dimwits!
Such a monumental waste.

Greedy knuckledragging filth like you is driving it.

If you control for global total war costs (WWI & WWII) govt debt is fairly stable and about where it should be.

Posted Image

As a society, we must restrain pricks like you Trollie, who threaten everything with your boundless greed and all encompassing laziness.
Your 2nd chart just illustrates my point perfectly, government stopped taking on debts and it got pushed right onto the private sector.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Ex BP Golly
Member Avatar


Trollie
8 Dec 2016, 01:57 PM
Your 2nd chart just illustrates my point perfectly, government stopped taking on debts and it got pushed right onto the private sector.
Where does it demonstrate that?

WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Trollie
Member Avatar


Ex BP Golly
8 Dec 2016, 02:11 PM
Where does it demonstrate that?
Consider it your homework for the weekend
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Ex BP Golly
Member Avatar


Trollie
8 Dec 2016, 02:14 PM
Consider it your homework for the weekend
I won't waste my time trying to decipher yourcrazyness.

What years demonstrate your belief that government has forced speculators to assume stupid levels of debt since 1975?
Edited by Ex BP Golly, 8 Dec 2016, 02:38 PM.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Trollie
Member Avatar


Ex BP Golly
8 Dec 2016, 02:26 PM
I won't waste my time trying to decipher yourcrazyness.

What years demonstrate your belief that government has forced speculators to assume stupid levels of debt since 1975?
Like I said right at the beginning. It shows a lack of government debt pushes the debt onto the private sector.

Just look at super as an example. 9% of the countries wages tied up in a scheme that allows the government to avoid debt. That's 9% we can't pay off our own debts, so we collectively take on more debt to allow the government to dodge it.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Australian Property Forum · Next Topic »
Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 9



Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.

Forum Rules: The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.

Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.

Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.

This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.

For more information go to Limitations on Exclusive Rights: Fair Use

Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ

Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy