A bit more of tha same makin' shit up from you I see. I woz never a fan of antagonisin' tha f***ers mate. Never enjoyed me time in tha industry quite so much that I woz tempted ta stash any such stuff in me backyard as momentos to it Golly ...
Herbie I truly reckon you're the nicest person on these forums. So maybe try to acknowledge what Jon Snow is saying?
I don't know if it's true, but he is making the point that back when you were slaving away, the entire workplace in Australia benefitted from regulations and labour agreements that collectively resulted in better pay and better conditions for ALL Australians, irrespective of whether they were union members or not. You benefitted from socialist policies even if you personally didn't make any effort to bring those policies into effect. Every salary worker did.
But, Jon Snow has to accept that even if this is true it doesn't completely explain how you have managed to accumulate 4 debt free houses and $850k cash in the bank. Obviously, there was something in your life ethic that enabled you to do that while many others could not. Jon Snow, Herbie can get defensive if he thinks your trying to assert that his entire life's accomplishments can be explained away by socialism.
So maybe try to acknowledge what Jon Snow is saying?
I don't know if it's true, but he is making the point that back when you were slaving away, the entire workplace in Australia benefitted from regulations and labour agreements that collectively resulted in better pay and better conditions for ALL Australians, irrespective of whether they were union members or not. You benefitted from socialist policies even if you personally didn't make any effort to bring those policies into effect. Every salary worker did.
I woz chatting to a (younger) dude very recently (to whom I'm close) who opined tha nation woz just maybe a better place back 'in his day' when pretty much any drone could get a (maybe halfway decent paying?) job. ('N he surprised me in sayin' it actually, 'cause I'd assumed [more fool me] that he woz a bit more capitalist than that.)
But anyway Yep, me mind's not totally closed ta his thoughts.
Tho I very sincerely doubt ya'd find Jon Snow would be quite so open ta 'em?
But regardless, such decisions aren't overly 'n especially mine ta be takin' 'n makin' these days (for mine) - Youse young dudes have gotta sort out wot sorta world ya want ta live in now - 'Cause ya gunna have a damn lot longer ta live wif tha consequences than I will.
PS: Does seem a bit strange ta me that given we (figuratively speakin') started climbing down out of tha trees at least maybe 4,000 yrs back maybe, wif The Code of Hammurabi bein' writ around 1754 BC, we're STILL squabblin' about just wot kind of society might be 'best' ta live in 'n why 'n why not; 'N wot laws it should (and shouldn't) have (including on stuff like how economies are best run) etc.
Herbie I truly reckon you're the nicest person on these forums. So maybe try to acknowledge what Jon Snow is saying?
I don't know if it's true, but he is making the point that back when you were slaving away, the entire workplace in Australia benefitted from regulations and labour agreements that collectively resulted in better pay and better conditions for ALL Australians, irrespective of whether they were union members or not. You benefitted from socialist policies even if you personally didn't make any effort to bring those policies into effect. Every salary worker did.
But, Jon Snow has to accept that even if this is true it doesn't completely explain how you have managed to accumulate 4 debt free houses and $850k cash in the bank. Obviously, there was something in your life ethic that enabled you to do that while many others could not. Jon Snow, Herbie can get defensive if he thinks your trying to assert that his entire life's accomplishments can be explained away by socialism.
So, let me acknowledge what you are saying and expand a bit.
Back when I was just a sprout, I lived in the Gong, where they, among other things, mine coal. Back then the coal miners were paid more than just about anyone in the Gong, except maybe the CEO and top executive of BHP. And this was to go down in a hole, and dig shit. Kind of like pre-school in the sand pit, but a little bit more dangerous, and pre-schoolers are not yet violent drunks, causing fatalities driving home from the pub.
There is only two ways such a dumbf*** job can be the highest paid in the town : collectivism and lack of supply of dumbf***s willing to do the job. Since the Gong (or anywhere else in Oz) has no shortage of dumbf***s, it must be collectivism. Whether you participated in collective action or not, you were the beneficiary. And as you rightly point out, so is pretty much everyone else. Like the lazy dumbf***s collecting $22 bucks an hour in retails to chat with each other and ignore the customers. Or the lazy dumbf***s in the hospitality industry bleeding small business owners dry with their do-nothing attitude and unfair dismissal actions. In fact, there is a good probability that Herbies kids enjoy such generous employment arrangements at the expense of the Australian consumer, business owner and taxpayer.
But I digress. The coal miners in the Gong, despite being the best paid dumbf***s in town, didn't have two beans to rub together, and pissed away most of their wages into the pub's urinal. So yes, while Herbie's income is not particularly remarkable or even any kind of achievement, his fiscal discipline and future planning is to be applauded.
But all of this is a diversion. Overpaid dumbf***s on the world's highest wages will increasingly find themselves competing with hard working Asians. And since Herbie asserted that there is no reason for us to manufacture anything here in Australia, it begs the question, WHAT goods and services will we trade in return for said manufactured goods out of Asia? I still don't have an answer to this question, other than some vague hand waving about tourism and education. Let's go with that for now.
1. Tourism - Got some bad news for the future generations if this is the industry we are pinning our export hopes on: hospitality is HARD WORK. And tourists expect to be SERVED, or they will go somewhere else. On top of which, it is LOW SKILLED work, which means it DOESN'T PAY VERY MUCH, which doesn't bode well for the housing bubble. 2. Education - Asian countries are quickly developing their own university system. 15 years ago Hong Kong had 2 universities, now they have 10. Mainland Chinese universities have shot up in global rankings. South Korea has built a massive international research university. Very soon Australian Universities are going to have to offer VALUE to compete with Asian universities, so that Asian students are attracted to our overpriced shitty real estate.
That's enough for now.
Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret. Ambrose Bierce
Back when I was just a sprout, I lived in the Gong, where they, among other things, mine coal. Back then the coal miners were paid more than just about anyone in the Gong, except maybe the CEO and top executive of BHP. And this was to go down in a hole, and dig shit.
Yep I've lived in a coal mining town too, and yes the miners were highly paid. They got paid well because the work was very dangerous, not because it was skilled. I don't know about you but an employer would need to pay me more to take a risk to my life and limb. Seems like a normal market response to me.
Sad that you begrudge others from earning high wages.
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1. Tourism - Got some bad news for the future generations if this is the industry we are pinning our export hopes on: hospitality is HARD WORK. And tourists expect to be SERVED, or they will go somewhere else. On top of which, it is LOW SKILLED work, which means it DOESN'T PAY VERY MUCH, which doesn't bode well for the housing bubble.
Every society needs low skilled work, not everyone can have or needs a University Degree. Not everyone wants to be the master of the universe.
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2. Education - Asian countries are quickly developing their own university system. 15 years ago Hong Kong had 2 universities, now they have 10. Mainland Chinese universities have shot up in global rankings. South Korea has built a massive international research university. Very soon Australian Universities are going to have to offer VALUE to compete with Asian universities, so that Asian students are attracted to our overpriced shitty real estate.
They come here to be educated in an English speaking country because they appreciate that mastering English is a way to boost their own career prospects.
No idea what made you so pessimistic, but I cannot share your negative vision of the world.
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
Never spent a day in me life in tha mines as a union member mate ... (Hmmm - 'N none of tha youngs in me family live in apartments - Tho they might; Some day.)
So yep, given that, I just naturally now must accept (unless ya specifically prove otherwise) that ALL ya very tired lazy assumations (and comments 'n opinions) about 'n on everything are shit.
F*** me; You're no diff ta Rastus - Just totally happy ta make shit up totally willy nilly ...
So you didn't pay money to unions, and you avoided paying tax in Australia (as per a post you made ages ago by working overseas)... you really are happy for others to carry you through life, arn't ya'
How about you go back to the countries you enjoyed being in that meant your taxation in Australia was lower, and spend your retirement in those countries where you could be bothered paying taxes instead of bitching about Australia to people who live and work here while paying all of our taxes here.
So you didn't pay money to unions, and you avoided paying tax in Australia (as per a post you made ages ago by working overseas)... you really are happy for others to carry you through life, arn't ya'
How about you go back to the countries you enjoyed being in that meant your taxation in Australia was lower, and spend your retirement in those countries where you could be bothered paying taxes instead of bitching about Australia to people who live and work here while paying all of our taxes here.
Skum
You know that if you work overseas you pay tax in that country at their tax rates.
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
You know that if you work overseas you pay tax in that country at their tax rates.
Rastus knows f*** all pretty obviously - Including about tha fact there are reasons (presumably) many, many, many countries (including Oz) have negotiated international tax agreements wif other countries that their labour can and definitely does flow to 'n from (ie between) 'these' days.
[Rider: Not that I know all that much about their reasons for it either.]
But unlike 'Stupid', I'm at least smart enuff ta not hop on some internet forum 'n go blah blah regardin' me ill informed opinion on it without knowin' about it.
PS: 'N if ya don't like it 'Stupid', take it up wif tha ATO ... Wot wif them bein' tha f***ers wot negotiated ('n presumably continue ta negotiate?) tha nation's international tax agreements wif other nations. (JESUS YOU'RE F***ING STUPID RASTUS! ... )
Yep I've lived in a coal mining town too, and yes the miners were highly paid. They got paid well because the work was very dangerous, not because it was skilled.
No, they got paid well because of collective action and a low immigration policy. Plenty of folks around the world happy to move here and mine coal for half what the locals get paid.
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I don't know about you but an employer would need to pay me more to take a risk to my life and limb.
Unless there were 20 Indonesians ready to jump in and do it anyway.
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Sad that you begrudge others from earning high wages.
Ah, can't address the issue, so you revert to ad-hominem. Pretty much modus operandi for you.
Quote:
Every society needs low skilled work, not everyone can have or needs a University Degree. Not everyone wants to be the master of the universe.
(1) Wrong. We have been building machines for almost two centuries to replace low skilled workers, a trend that will continue, as the machines are getting smarter and better. (2) Low wages CANNOT SUPPORT MILLION DOLLAR HOUSE PRICES.
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They come here to be educated in an English speaking country because they appreciate that mastering English is a way to boost their own career prospects.
And what happens when mastering Chinese is a way to boost their own career prospects?
Quote:
No idea what made you so pessimistic, but I cannot share your negative vision of the world.
It's only your one-eyed myopic vision that sees my statement as pessimism. I am very optimistic for the future of Asia, including their University system.
Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret. Ambrose Bierce
You know that if you work overseas you pay tax in that country at their tax rates.
Yes, I do actually.
So what ?
If someone elects to boast on the forum how they preferred to pay tax overseas than here in Australia, then they have less right to claim their tax dollars here are being wasted... go back to that country and bitch about the use of their tax dollars instead.
No, they got paid well because of collective action and a low immigration policy. Plenty of folks around the world happy to move here and mine coal for half what the locals get paid.
Unless there were 20 Indonesians ready to jump in and do it anyway.
Ah, can't address the issue, so you revert to ad-hominem. Pretty much modus operandi for you.
(1) Wrong. We have been building machines for almost two centuries to replace low skilled workers, a trend that will continue, as the machines are getting smarter and better. (2) Low wages CANNOT SUPPORT MILLION DOLLAR HOUSE PRICES.
And what happens when mastering Chinese is a way to boost their own career prospects?
It's only your one-eyed myopic vision that sees my statement as pessimism. I am very optimistic for the future of Asia, including their University system.
NWAR
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
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