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Perth - The Bottom is Here
Topic Started: 22 Oct 2016, 04:10 PM (21,333 Views)
Jimbo
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Jon Snow
24 Oct 2016, 08:35 PM
No, it isn't. There is no price until a contract is agreed by the buyer and seller.
Correct.

We tender for contracts along with many other engineering companies. We all submit a price for something which hasn't been made yet.

The supplier submitting the lowest price generally gets to make the item.

The suppliers submitting the higher prices never get to make the item.

The price of the item is therefore the amount handed over by the purchaser for the completed item.

The price quoted by the most expensive vendor is not relevant.
Rastus2
24 Oct 2016, 07:35 PM
The Price is, in the real world, the Asking Price that is put out (assuming a fixed price is advertised).
So if I put a loaf of bread on Gumtree for $1000, is the price of bread now $1000?
Edited by Jimbo, 24 Oct 2016, 09:04 PM.
Matthew, 30 Jan 2016, 09:21 AM Your simplistic view is so flawed it is not worth debating. The current oversupply will be swallowed in 12 months. By the time dumb shits like you realise this prices will already be :?: rising.
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Steve99
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24 Oct 2016, 07:36 PM
Looks like a bit of a talkfest from Terry .

So you agree that if prices fall a bit more, welfare recipients could afford the repayments ?

Maybe they could, but we will do some sums in a moment.

But do you think they could drum up the required deposit Terry ?

Do you think they would qualify for a loan Terry ?

So does it really matter even if they could somehow afford it ?

Remember this. It does not matter how cheap prices are, how cheap rents are, how much the population is growing by, or how low interest rates are, what matters is wheather you have jobs for these people. Without a job, you will not qualify for a mortgage.

Now , could they afford the repayments if prices dropped a bit more ? Lets say prices drop another 10%(despite apparently being at the bottom Terry) , so now this $390k 2 bedder is $350k . Lets pretend the banks think its so cheap they dont even need a deposit , or nanna pays the deposit and guarantors the property. And that stamp duty has been abolished , or nanna paid that too.

Ok... So now we have a 350k mortgage, and he rents the room out to his other dole mate for $150 a week.

A 350k mortgage over 25 years at 3.75% , would still see him around $400 a week after the rented room pays council, inurance, water rates ,strata fees or repairs.

Can somebody on the dole afford $400 per week in repayments ? Terry seems to think so. Thats what he tells us.

Will rates be 3.75% forever ? How much will repayments be if rates rise ?

Lets assume rates go to zero from our current 1.5 % rba rate, and banks pass on half, being 0.75% .

Repayments are still over $380 per week. Can somebody on the dole afford that ? And now we are at zero , so no more discounts to be had for any mortgage holder.

Lets assume the banks pass on the full 1.5 % from here. Repayments are still over $350 per week.

Will zero rates makes much difference, even if the mortgage holder does have a job ?

Mr Ryder has spent so much time in the world of free money that he is clueless about real people, real wages and most certainly has no idea what being on the dole is. In fact like many of the big mouthed idiots we get talking at us these days he seems to have arrived at a 'let them eat cake' phase of his bullshit. The French would know what to do.
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Rastus2
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Jon Snow
24 Oct 2016, 08:35 PM


No, it isn't. There is no price until a contract is agreed by the buyer and seller.

No it wasn't, otherwise entry into the shop would imply a contract to purchase bread. The sticker 'price' is merely an offer. The potential buyer can make a counter offer. If neither offer is accepted, there is no contract. If any offer is agreed to by both the buyer and seller, the price is struck when consideration passes from the buyer to the seller.
I think you are nit picking here... As I said, there are many prices, (asking, offering, selling), however the price of the item is the ticket (asking) price, until it is sold for, possibly, another negotiated price (either higher or lower).

Otherwise there would never be a price for any item until it is sold :re:

There are many prices, however the price on the item remains the asking price (ticket price) until it is altered.

Just because the price is too high for a buyer does not mean it is not the price being asked... the price on 'over priced' property is still that amount... it is deemed 'over price' because people deem it to high, however it is the ticket price until altered.

Price : decide the amount required as payment for (something offered for sale).
"the watches are priced at $55"



Those $55 watches may not sell, but they are priced at $55 unless the seller alters that price.
Shadow - Defrauded his Bank ? 2015 I have 9 different loans and my bank had no idea which ones were personal and which were investment. They had half of them classed incorrectly. When this change came in they asked me to tell them if any personal loans were incorrectly classed as investment, which I did, and they switched them to personal for the lower rate. They also had a couple of investment loans incorrectly classed as personal. They didn't ask me about those. So they stay on the lower rate too. Worked out pretty well. :)
Shadow - 2008 Sydney Median House Price 1.25M by 2014-2015

Shadow : I think this boom has already begun in several cities. My prediction :
Peak of boom: 2014-2015. Sydney Median Price: $1,250,000 Bottom of bust: 2017-2018. Sydney Median Price: $1,100,000

Shadow's Original 2010 House Boom and Crash prediction http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/shady-orig-2010-chart.png.html?sort=3&o=0

Shadow's attempt to edit his 2010 chart in 2015 and replace it with one that does not show a crash in 2013 http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-06%20at%207.12.52%20pm_1.png.html
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Jimbo
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Rastus2
24 Oct 2016, 09:37 PM
I think you are nit picking here... As I said, there are many prices, (asking, offering, selling), however the price of the item is the ticket (asking) price, until it is sold for, possibly, another negotiated price (either higher or lower).
This really isn't worth fighting over.

If I put my loaf of bread on Gumtree for $1000, the price of my loaf of bread is $1000.

However. my loaf of bread is not worth $1000 just because I asked $1000 for it.

I may base my finances around the assumed worth, I may get a loan if I manage to convince a lender of the assumed worth.

Perhaps a whole economy could be based around the assumption that all loaves of bread are worth $1000.

But my loaf of bread is worth nothing until someone actually coughs up and gives me the money.

And the amount of money he gives me in exchange for that loaf of bread is the price, the worth, the value.
Edited by Jimbo, 24 Oct 2016, 09:51 PM.
Matthew, 30 Jan 2016, 09:21 AM Your simplistic view is so flawed it is not worth debating. The current oversupply will be swallowed in 12 months. By the time dumb shits like you realise this prices will already be :?: rising.
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Rastus2
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Jimbo
24 Oct 2016, 09:49 PM


But my loaf of bread is worth nothing until someone actually coughs up and gives me the money.


rubbish.

By extension, all of your property is worth nothing until you actually sell it... every asset you have except cold hard cash is worth nothing.
Shadow - Defrauded his Bank ? 2015 I have 9 different loans and my bank had no idea which ones were personal and which were investment. They had half of them classed incorrectly. When this change came in they asked me to tell them if any personal loans were incorrectly classed as investment, which I did, and they switched them to personal for the lower rate. They also had a couple of investment loans incorrectly classed as personal. They didn't ask me about those. So they stay on the lower rate too. Worked out pretty well. :)
Shadow - 2008 Sydney Median House Price 1.25M by 2014-2015

Shadow : I think this boom has already begun in several cities. My prediction :
Peak of boom: 2014-2015. Sydney Median Price: $1,250,000 Bottom of bust: 2017-2018. Sydney Median Price: $1,100,000

Shadow's Original 2010 House Boom and Crash prediction http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/shady-orig-2010-chart.png.html?sort=3&o=0

Shadow's attempt to edit his 2010 chart in 2015 and replace it with one that does not show a crash in 2013 http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-06%20at%207.12.52%20pm_1.png.html
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Jon Snow
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Rastus2
24 Oct 2016, 09:37 PM
I think you are nit picking here... As I said, there are many prices, (asking, offering, selling), however the price of the item is the ticket (asking) price, until it is sold for, possibly, another negotiated price (either higher or lower).
No, I'm telling you the legal interpretation. Before a contract is settled (i.e. consideration has passed), all numbers are bids or offers. The price is the bid or offer that both the seller and buyer agree to, and settle on by passing consideration.
Quote:
 
Otherwise there would never be a price for any item until it is sold :re:
That is the legal and market position. A price is an observation of what has already occurred. The layperson's definition of price is the one you have. What they are told they need to pay for something.
Quote:
 
There are many prices, however the price on the item remains the asking price (ticket price) until it is altered.
Yes, that is the lay definition of price. The legal definition is the value at which the transaction is struck. Before that the vendor makes an 'invitation to treat' (or invitation to bargain in the US). The buyer then makes a bid (or offer). The value at which the contract is struck is the price.
Quote:
 
Just because the price is too high for a buyer does not mean it is not the price being asked... the price on 'over priced' property is still that amount... it is deemed 'over price' because people deem it to high, however it is the ticket price until altered.
No, it is just an invitation to treat.
Quote:
 
Price : decide the amount required as payment for (something offered for sale).
Yes, decide, by the seller and the buyer.
Quote:
 
Those $55 watches may not sell, but they are priced at $55 unless the seller alters that price.
No, they are offered for sale at $55, not priced at $55. It is a legal technicality and a market convention. The layperson thinks the seller has set a price, but it is not the case.
Edited by Jon Snow, 24 Oct 2016, 11:01 PM.
Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret.
Ambrose Bierce
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dachopper
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24 Oct 2016, 07:36 PM
Looks like a bit of a talkfest from Terry .

So you agree that if prices fall a bit more, welfare recipients could afford the repayments ?

Maybe they could, but we will do some sums in a moment.

But do you think they could drum up the required deposit Terry ?

Do you think they would qualify for a loan Terry ?

So does it really matter even if they could somehow afford it ?

Remember this. It does not matter how cheap prices are, how cheap rents are, how much the population is growing by, or how low interest rates are, what matters is wheather you have jobs for these people. Without a job, you will not qualify for a mortgage.

Now , could they afford the repayments if prices dropped a bit more ? Lets say prices drop another 10%(despite apparently being at the bottom Terry) , so now this $390k 2 bedder is $350k . Lets pretend the banks think its so cheap they dont even need a deposit , or nanna pays the deposit and guarantors the property. And that stamp duty has been abolished , or nanna paid that too.

Ok... So now we have a 350k mortgage, and he rents the room out to his other dole mate for $150 a week.

A 350k mortgage over 25 years at 3.75% , would still see him around $400 a week after the rented room pays council, inurance, water rates ,strata fees or repairs.

Can somebody on the dole afford $400 per week in repayments ? Terry seems to think so. Thats what he tells us.

Will rates be 3.75% forever ? How much will repayments be if rates rise ?

Lets assume rates go to zero from our current 1.5 % rba rate, and banks pass on half, being 0.75% .

Repayments are still over $380 per week. Can somebody on the dole afford that ? And now we are at zero , so no more discounts to be had for any mortgage holder.

Lets assume the banks pass on the full 1.5 % from here. Repayments are still over $350 per week.

Will zero rates makes much difference, even if the mortgage holder does have a job ?

You and your " if there are no jobs"

I can guarantee, that if the Perth unemployment ever gets to 7 percent, that the 93% of the working population who do have a job, by your logic, do not all own houses.

Since there is a large number who are employed, and do not yet own a house + record low interest rates + no crash looming + only long term possible rises in interest rates, or slow market recoveries...

It is therefore time to purchase, or you'll pay 50% more in 10 years time. You probably need me to do the maths on that for you also.

Interest rate now ~ 4%, interest rate in 10 years time, probably over 6%. Increase in cost - 50%
Edited by dachopper, 25 Oct 2016, 01:12 AM.
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dachopper
25 Oct 2016, 01:10 AM
You and your " if there are no jobs"

I can guarantee, that if the Perth unemployment ever gets to 7 percent, that the 93% of the working population who do have a job, by your logic, do not all own houses.

Since there is a large number who are employed, and do not yet own a house + record low interest rates + no crash looming + only long term possible rises in interest rates, or slow market recoveries...

It is therefore time to purchase, or you'll pay 50% more in 10 years time. You probably need me to do the maths on that for you also.

Interest rate now ~ 4%, interest rate in 10 years time, probably over 6%. Increase in cost - 50%
The jobs problem is a problem most wish to ignore. The problems we are now facing in the jobs market are lroblems we have never faced before. Its exactly why Ford and Holden are shutting shop here. An industry that has been here for near on a century supporting generation after generation into lifelong job security and home ownership. We are the only country in the world to lose our motor industry. None of these other countries that apparently had a gfc have lost theirs, but somehow we do. This is not just a reflection on the motor industry, but of Australian jobs as a whole. And how they are unable to compete with the rest of the world these days as our wages are the highest in the world and now out of touch with these cheap asain wages. But lets just all pretend this is not happening.

You then tell me that if unemployment goes to 7% , 93 % of people will still have a job. The reality is when we look at total population, less than 50 % would have a full time job. Thats what the numbers show. But somebody wishes to make out like 93% still have a job.

Will they have a fulltime job or a part time one ? Can you pay a mortgage or rent with a part time wage ? Can you obtain either with a part time wage ? How secure are part time jobs ?

You can guarantee that not everybody will own a home ? So can I, so what ?

You then say a large number are still employed. Perhaps they are, but will they be employed in future, many who were, are now not employed. Unemployment there is growing, and there is very little to support it from here. How do you top the biggest mining boom in history ??? The biggest jobs and wages growth ? The lowest interest rates ever ? All I am seeing is one very big ,very long windown , with very little to support it moving forward.

You then tell me in ten years time it will cost 50 % more in ten years . Could they afford 50 % more in ten years time ? With our wages so out touch with reality , will they be able to afford 50 % less in ten years time ? Wages must fall here not grow. If they dont fall then our jobs will just keep falling, its pretty much that simple.

We dont know what interest rates sill be in ten years time. They could be 6% in two years time, they could be ten. What we do know is that they cannot go much lower so there is practiclly zero chance of any relief from there. Only up side. People are paying interest only loans in record numbers, which includes owner occupiers. The reason is, that is all most can afford after taking on so much debt. Will they have a job in five or ten years ? Will it be full or part time ? How will all these pdople go when rates rise when they csn barely afford repayments while rates are at sll time lows. No problems here right.

After all that has supported this market for quite some time now, prices have not risen much at all over this time
Everything that has supported this market, the biggest mining boom in history is now over. So too is the construction boom, so jobs are dissapearing there too now. There is nothing to replace all these jobs.

Just one big long windown is what the Perth market is facing, with little if ANYTHING to support it, now or forever. Future economic conditions are looking so dire both here and all around the world, that Perth may have already seen the highest prices you will ever see in your life. Sort of like those mining towns port hedland or karratha. When do you think these house prices will exceed their previous highs ? Do you expect to see this in your lifetime ???

The bigger picture for Perth is not that much different . All that was supporting it, is now disspearing. These little towns show us the macro of the bigger picture, an exaggerated example. Shows how the economy goes great when its all on the up, but how it will go when all that dissapears. Things elsewhere are just happening much more slowly. The effects take longer to filter through, but the signs are all there.

Good luck with your purchase chopper. Buy five, everybody else is.





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Blondie girl
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Jon Snow
24 Oct 2016, 11:00 PM
No, I'm telling you the legal interpretation. Before a contract is settled (i.e. consideration has passed), all numbers are bids or offers. The price is the bid or offer that both the seller and buyer agree to, and settle on by passing consideration.

That is the legal and market position. A price is an observation of what has already occurred. The layperson's definition of price is the one you have. What they are told they need to pay for something.

Yes, that is the lay definition of price. The legal definition is the value at which the transaction is struck. Before that the vendor makes an 'invitation to treat' (or invitation to bargain in the US). The buyer then makes a bid (or offer). The value at which the contract is struck is the price.

No, it is just an invitation to treat.

Yes, decide, by the seller and the buyer.

No, they are offered for sale at $55, not priced at $55. It is a legal technicality and a market convention. The layperson thinks the seller has set a price, but it is not the case.
You do gooooooooooooo on and on and on.....

OMG :lol
Newjerk? can you try harder than dig up another person's blog. My first promo was with Billabong and my name in English is modified with a T, am Perth born but also lived in Sydney to make my $$
It's Absolutely Fabulous if it includes brilliant locations, & high calibre tenants..what more does one want? Understand the power of the two "P"" or be financially challenged
Even better when there is family who are property mad and one is born in some entitlements.....Understand that beautiful women are the exhibitionists we crave attention, whilst hot blooded men are the voyeurs ... A stunning woman can command and takes pleasure in being noticed. Seems not too many understand what it means to hold and own props and get threatened by those who do.
Banks are considered to be law abiding and & rather boring places yeah not true . A bank balance sheet will show capital is dwarfed by their liabilities this means when a portions of loans is falling its problems for the bank.
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zaph
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Blondie girl
25 Oct 2016, 02:25 PM
You do gooooooooooooo on and on and on.....

OMG :lol
You need to book your computer in for a service ittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt apppppppppppppppppears that some of the keys are sticky. Perhaps stop drinking and typing.
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