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Apartments (American) where only the owner can live in them; As in they can't be rented out - Anyone else ever heard of them?
Topic Started: 20 Oct 2016, 01:52 PM (1,283 Views)
herbie
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Was talking to my 'second mom' (a Yank) recently 'n she'd gotten lumbered wif one as tha result of tha death of a family member who owned one.

It's being sold of course wif her neither needing nor wanting it.

But as an Aussie, it just sounded a bit strange ta me - We don't have any such things here do we?
Edited by herbie, 20 Oct 2016, 01:56 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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Ex BP Golly
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herbie
20 Oct 2016, 01:52 PM
Was talking to my 'second mom' (a Yank) recently 'n she'd gotten lumbered wif one as tha result of tha death of a family member who owned one.

It's being sold of course wif her neither needing nor wanting it.

But as an Aussie, it just sounded a bit strange ta me - We don't have any such things here do we?
A very large number of company title apartments would fit this. Some even have interviews with prospective purchasers to make sure (as much as possible) that they will fit in before purchasing a unit.

After being in strata schemes where owners kept making claims for damage by their tenants I'd definitely consider company title if I was to purchase in a city again.

For some reason I can't understand, they are not only cheaper, but invariably better maintained than strata units.

WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
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Dean.Collins
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I'm Australian but live in NYC.

About 50% of NY apartments are "Coop" (the other 30% are "Condo" eg like Strata in Australia, and the other 20% are multi-family eg someone owns the whole building and just rents out the individual apartments to multiple tenants).

There are a number of differences between Coop and Condo however the main difference (and the one you are referring to) is that a Coop can have "rules".

These rules are agrees to by 66% of the owners (though even this percentage can change from building to building but the number is set when the building is initially setup).

And yes one of the most common rules is that around sublets or renting out your property.....

its really common for coops to prevent ALL rentals (I'd say about 50% so about 25% of the market it must be the owner OR the owners immediate family that occupy the apartment), in our coop we have a slightly less restrictive policy in that you can rent out your apartment 1 year in every 5 (eg allows for you to relocate with your company for a year to the west coast/Europe etc and come back).

The other most common rule is around percentage of mortgage eg our coop rule is you can only have a maximum mortgage of 80% though there are some buildings that are ALL CASH, meaning that you cant have any mortgage at all and must be paid for in cash up front (there was a story a few years ago how Rupert Murdoch was buying an apartment and paid $20m+ upfront and even then the coop board made him wait a few months before they approved the transaction.

Basically as long as the rules don't discriminate on Sex/Age/Religion/Race......you can have as strict as or as lax as rules.

I know it sounds a little weird to Australians but makes a lot of sense now that I've lived here for a while....... (not sure what that says about me :)

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Bardon
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Interesting stuff and for all the time that I lived in the US and me experiences with property ownership out there I didn't know this.
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Ex BP Golly
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Dean.Collins
22 Oct 2016, 02:11 AM
I'm Australian but live in NYC.

About 50% of NY apartments are "Coop" (the other 30% are "Condo" eg like Strata in Australia, and the other 20% are multi-family eg someone owns the whole building and just rents out the individual apartments to multiple tenants).

There are a number of differences between Coop and Condo however the main difference (and the one you are referring to) is that a Coop can have "rules".

These rules are agrees to by 66% of the owners (though even this percentage can change from building to building but the number is set when the building is initially setup).

And yes one of the most common rules is that around sublets or renting out your property.....

its really common for coops to prevent ALL rentals (I'd say about 50% so about 25% of the market it must be the owner OR the owners immediate family that occupy the apartment), in our coop we have a slightly less restrictive policy in that you can rent out your apartment 1 year in every 5 (eg allows for you to relocate with your company for a year to the west coast/Europe etc and come back).

The other most common rule is around percentage of mortgage eg our coop rule is you can only have a maximum mortgage of 80% though there are some buildings that are ALL CASH, meaning that you cant have any mortgage at all and must be paid for in cash up front (there was a story a few years ago how Rupert Murdoch was buying an apartment and paid $20m+ upfront and even then the coop board made him wait a few months before they approved the transaction.

Basically as long as the rules don't discriminate on Sex/Age/Religion/Race......you can have as strict as or as lax as rules.

I know it sounds a little weird to Australians but makes a lot of sense now that I've lived here for a while....... (not sure what that says about me :)

Sounds like 'co-op' would be similar to our 'company title' and 'condo' our 'strata'.

Any observations, like for like on cost and quality (ie upkeep/quality).

I have some family members who only ever buy company title because they don't like living with renters, & pick up like for like significantly cheaper.

Their complexes are always populated with professionals, senior public servants and interesting retirees. Always in great repair, and exhibit lovely common areas that residents take pride in.



WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
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Rastus2
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Ex BP Golly
21 Oct 2016, 03:58 PM
A very large number of company title apartments would fit this. Some even have interviews with prospective purchasers to make sure (as much as possible) that they will fit in before purchasing a unit.

After being in strata schemes where owners kept making claims for damage by their tenants I'd definitely consider company title if I was to purchase in a city again.

For some reason I can't understand, they are not only cheaper, but invariably better maintained than strata units.
Yes, I had heard this also... one of the cautions about buying an apartment in NYC for investment is that it might turn sour if you don't lay out your needs early, and check on the allowed uses of your potential purchase.

With the advent of gated communities, and doormen in apartment blocks, I can understand how these rules grew... in Australia there are many estates where covenants exist that limit things I never would have thought... having said that, when most of the estate is sold off by the developer, or even beforehand, it's pretty difficult to enforce the rules.
Shadow - Defrauded his Bank ? 2015 I have 9 different loans and my bank had no idea which ones were personal and which were investment. They had half of them classed incorrectly. When this change came in they asked me to tell them if any personal loans were incorrectly classed as investment, which I did, and they switched them to personal for the lower rate. They also had a couple of investment loans incorrectly classed as personal. They didn't ask me about those. So they stay on the lower rate too. Worked out pretty well. :)
Shadow - 2008 Sydney Median House Price 1.25M by 2014-2015

Shadow : I think this boom has already begun in several cities. My prediction :
Peak of boom: 2014-2015. Sydney Median Price: $1,250,000 Bottom of bust: 2017-2018. Sydney Median Price: $1,100,000

Shadow's Original 2010 House Boom and Crash prediction http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/shady-orig-2010-chart.png.html?sort=3&o=0

Shadow's attempt to edit his 2010 chart in 2015 and replace it with one that does not show a crash in 2013 http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-06%20at%207.12.52%20pm_1.png.html
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herbie
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Dean.Collins
22 Oct 2016, 02:11 AM
I'm Australian but live in NYC.

About 50% of NY apartments are "Coop" (the other 30% are "Condo" eg like Strata in Australia, and the other 20% are multi-family eg someone owns the whole building and just rents out the individual apartments to multiple tenants).

There are a number of differences between Coop and Condo however the main difference (and the one you are referring to) is that a Coop can have "rules".

These rules are agrees to by 66% of the owners (though even this percentage can change from building to building but the number is set when the building is initially setup).

And yes one of the most common rules is that around sublets or renting out your property.....

its really common for coops to prevent ALL rentals (I'd say about 50% so about 25% of the market it must be the owner OR the owners immediate family that occupy the apartment), in our coop we have a slightly less restrictive policy in that you can rent out your apartment 1 year in every 5 (eg allows for you to relocate with your company for a year to the west coast/Europe etc and come back).

The other most common rule is around percentage of mortgage eg our coop rule is you can only have a maximum mortgage of 80% though there are some buildings that are ALL CASH, meaning that you cant have any mortgage at all and must be paid for in cash up front (there was a story a few years ago how Rupert Murdoch was buying an apartment and paid $20m+ upfront and even then the coop board made him wait a few months before they approved the transaction.

Basically as long as the rules don't discriminate on Sex/Age/Religion/Race......you can have as strict as or as lax as rules.

I know it sounds a little weird to Australians but makes a lot of sense now that I've lived here for a while....... (not sure what that says about me :)

Thanks Dean.
Bardon
22 Oct 2016, 07:13 AM
Interesting stuff and for all the time that I lived in the US and me experiences with property ownership out there I didn't know this.
It would certainly make a man feel like a mug if he bought a property overseas intending to rent it out only ta subsequently find out he couldn't tho hey? - LOL
Edited by herbie, 22 Oct 2016, 10:34 AM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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Bardon
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herbie
22 Oct 2016, 10:30 AM
It would certainly make a man feel like a mug if he bought a property overseas intending to rent it out only ta subsequently find out he couldn't tho hey? - LOL
Yes and to rub salt in the wounds your attorney that represented you in closing was also charging you to advise you that you cant rent it out.

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Foxy
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Zero is coming...

herbie
20 Oct 2016, 01:52 PM
Was talking to my 'second mom' (a Yank) recently 'n she'd gotten lumbered wif one as tha result of tha death of a family member who owned one.

It's being sold of course wif her neither needing nor wanting it.

But as an Aussie, it just sounded a bit strange ta me - We don't have any such things here do we?
yes.
They were under a system of company ownership.

You would buy shares in the property, not a strata.

Most have been phased out i think, but always check.

Peter
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Ex BP Golly
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Most if these restrictions would suit me to a tee:


"Are there restrictions upon who may actually be approved to purchase the shares (eg does a minor criminal infringement preclude board approval)?

Is renting of the flat allowed (ie sub-letting given you are already the ‘tenant’)? Some buildings completely prohibit renting (ie the shareholder must be in residence).

If renting is allowed; are there restrictions?

Is there an exclusion period of ownership before renting is allowed (eg no rental for first 12 months of ownership)?

Is there a time limit to how long a flat may be let (eg four years then must be returned to owner/occupied)?

Does the tenant need to be approved by the company board?

Is there any control on the weekly rental price (minimum or maximum) that the flat may be leased for (eg some buildings may set a minimum rental price to ‘control’ the quality or calibre of tenant)?

Do the articles limit or restrict the level of mortgage that may be taken against the shares (eg some buildings insist on certain levels of equity/deposit to purchase)?

Are there restrictions upon the style/plan of any renovations to the flat (eg some buildings control the use of certain tiles/materials hoping to maintain character)?

Can the board resume shares (ie if the board feels the owner is not ‘appropriate’; they can seek to resume the shares and force their sale essentially evicting the owner)"


http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/finding/residential-investment/26461-oct-1-observer-in-good-company-the-truths-myths-and-things-to-know-about-buying-company-title-brad-caldwell-eyles.html
Edited by Ex BP Golly, 22 Oct 2016, 12:19 PM.
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Share a cot with Milton?
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