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Mortgage fraud systemic in Australia UBS finds; ABC news- Michael Janda
Topic Started: 12 Oct 2016, 05:18 PM (4,033 Views)
Rastus2
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Khaderbhai
12 Oct 2016, 11:14 PM
Nope. I'm very honest.
'very honest' would be someone who makes contact with the lender to ensure they have full disclosure of the facts, in particular when you are aware that they may not have them on their own records correctly.

'very dodgy' would be someone who learns that the lender has probably an error on their records which benefits yourself and then avoids correcting that error with them, while taking the time to gloat about it on a forum such as this one.

I would argue that the latter is more appropriate description of your actions than the former.
Shadow - Defrauded his Bank ? 2015 I have 9 different loans and my bank had no idea which ones were personal and which were investment. They had half of them classed incorrectly. When this change came in they asked me to tell them if any personal loans were incorrectly classed as investment, which I did, and they switched them to personal for the lower rate. They also had a couple of investment loans incorrectly classed as personal. They didn't ask me about those. So they stay on the lower rate too. Worked out pretty well. :)
Shadow - 2008 Sydney Median House Price 1.25M by 2014-2015

Shadow : I think this boom has already begun in several cities. My prediction :
Peak of boom: 2014-2015. Sydney Median Price: $1,250,000 Bottom of bust: 2017-2018. Sydney Median Price: $1,100,000

Shadow's Original 2010 House Boom and Crash prediction http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/shady-orig-2010-chart.png.html?sort=3&o=0

Shadow's attempt to edit his 2010 chart in 2015 and replace it with one that does not show a crash in 2013 http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-06%20at%207.12.52%20pm_1.png.html
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Khaderbhai
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Rastus2
13 Oct 2016, 11:21 AM
'very honest' would be someone who makes contact with the lender to ensure they have full disclosure of the facts, in particular when you are aware that they may not have them on their own records correctly
Do you contact the bank to let them know each time your cost of living changes (for example, if an insurance premium rises, or you're spending more on groceries)?
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
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Rufus
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Rastus2
13 Oct 2016, 10:44 AM
Yup, and some people doing the finance also bump up things to 'assist'...

Just this week, I accidental had an email from the finance broker sent to me regarding the valuation on our PPOR and new IP.... The estimate they had for the PPOR was about what we had said, however the IP was inflated 20k on one email, and by another 30 k from the lender's estimation ... this was all before the actual valuation had been done (happening this week).

On challenging him on those numbers, he cited that the Valuation will always lower their estimates, so they often boost in anticpiation.


Sooo... once you add up all of the little white lies, the true asset tally is clearly over inflated in this environment where money is cheap, and white lies are glossed over.


Anyway, the truth of the matter will not appear until things turn sour, whenever that may be down the track.
Actually your broker is looking after your interests.

Firstly he can access a desktop valuation or estimate that will give him what is probably a more accurate valuation of your house than you have.

Secondly, if a valuation is being done, the valuer will be guided to some extent by your own estimate. That is if you say your house is worth $500K and he inspects the house and thinks it's really a $525K house, he more than likely will value it at $500K because that agrees with your estimate and it reduces his PI risk, but that reduced valuation might cost you either opportunity or extra premium costs on your LMI or maybe both.

But by all means write to your bank and tell them to reduce your valuation and fork up an extra few grand in LMI premium costs.
It will do you proud.

Or you could accept the advice of a professional and get out of their road with this holier than thou rubbish that you and Golly dream up.
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
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Ex BP Golly
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Khaderbhai
13 Oct 2016, 10:50 AM
If you really believe banks can call in 30% of all housing loans on a whim then you're very much mistaken.
According to this survey c.30% of people have broken both statute and common law principle, as well as a standard clause in mortgage contracts.

I won't be surprised to see banks exercising the provision should they require it.

I take it all your contracts are at risk?

WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
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Nathan800
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Get over it w@nk3rs.

Everyone does it.
Edited by Nathan800, 13 Oct 2016, 03:08 PM.
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Khaderbhai
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Ex BP Golly
13 Oct 2016, 02:58 PM
I take it all your contracts are at risk?
None of my contracts are at risk.
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
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Rastus2
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Khaderbhai
13 Oct 2016, 11:34 AM
Do you contact the bank to let them know each time your cost of living changes (for example, if an insurance premium rises, or you're spending more on groceries)?

If you consider these to be on the same level, you are seriously lacking in an ability to judge these matters. No wonder you use the word 'snitch' for those people who do not encourage others to break the law, or forum rules.

There is a chasm of difference between feeling the need to tell the bank every time a minor change to the cost of living alters, and feeling the need to avoid informing them that the whole use of the money you borrowed is different to what they think it is, thus gaining a financial benefit for it.
(You can claim the financial benefit is small, but it simply shows how low your morals can stoop for minimal financial benefit)



Rufus
13 Oct 2016, 01:15 PM
Actually your broker is looking after your interests.

Firstly he can access a desktop valuation or estimate that will give him what is probably a more accurate valuation of your house than you have.

Secondly, if a valuation is being done, the valuer will be guided to some extent by your own estimate. That is if you say your house is worth $500K and he inspects the house and thinks it's really a $525K house, he more than likely will value it at $500K because that agrees with your estimate and it reduces his PI risk, but that reduced valuation might cost you either opportunity or extra premium costs on your LMI or maybe both.

But by all means write to your bank and tell them to reduce your valuation and fork up an extra few grand in LMI premium costs.
It will do you proud.

Or you could accept the advice of a professional and get out of their road with this holier than thou rubbish that you and Golly dream up.

I did not say the broker was not looking after my interests...

however.

Firstly - Broker did not access a desktop val, he simply added on to the guesstimate we had provided, and told me as much, along with the rationale behind it when we chatted on the phone.


Secondly - I agree, which is why the broker bumped up our estimate... I noticed the finance company then bumped up his bumped up amount to take the property guesstimate valuation up another ~30k from his 20k.

I am hardly going to write to my bank until this is all settled and the final valuation comes back... as for any risk of LMI premium costs.. tell me, do many lenders demand LMI with a 50% LVR ? Somehow, I think we will be safe from LMI.



I think I touched a nerve there... as for Professionals, I think this guy is fine, but please don't forget it was the professionals who were involved with much of the toxic debt in America... until it was revealed that they were less professional than it was assumed.

Holier than thou is pretty easy when people are keen to defraud their bank, and fabricate numbers... get off your high horse and consider the multiplier effect of little white lies on top of little white lies, on top of little white lies (punter's valuation, + bump from broker, + bump from lender) .... with a valuation that is influenced by those.

Edited by Rastus2, 13 Oct 2016, 06:46 PM.
Shadow - Defrauded his Bank ? 2015 I have 9 different loans and my bank had no idea which ones were personal and which were investment. They had half of them classed incorrectly. When this change came in they asked me to tell them if any personal loans were incorrectly classed as investment, which I did, and they switched them to personal for the lower rate. They also had a couple of investment loans incorrectly classed as personal. They didn't ask me about those. So they stay on the lower rate too. Worked out pretty well. :)
Shadow - 2008 Sydney Median House Price 1.25M by 2014-2015

Shadow : I think this boom has already begun in several cities. My prediction :
Peak of boom: 2014-2015. Sydney Median Price: $1,250,000 Bottom of bust: 2017-2018. Sydney Median Price: $1,100,000

Shadow's Original 2010 House Boom and Crash prediction http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/shady-orig-2010-chart.png.html?sort=3&o=0

Shadow's attempt to edit his 2010 chart in 2015 and replace it with one that does not show a crash in 2013 http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-06%20at%207.12.52%20pm_1.png.html
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Khaderbhai
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Rastus2
13 Oct 2016, 06:37 PM
If you consider these to be on the same level, you are seriously lacking in an ability to judge these matters. No wonder you use the word 'snitch' for those people who do not encourage others to break the law, or forum rules.

There is a chasm of difference between feeling the need to tell the bank every time a minor change to the cost of living alters, and feeling the need to avoid informing them that the whole use of the money you borrowed is different to what they think it is, thus gaining a financial benefit for it.
(You can claim the financial benefit is small, but it simply shows how low your morals can stoop for minimal financial benefit)
I assume that means you don't bother notifying the bank when your living expenses rise?

What were your words again? Oh yes... "'very honest' would be someone who makes contact with the lender to ensure they have full disclosure of the facts"

I guess 'full disclosure' means only the facts that you decide are important enough to disclose. :re:

No worries Snitchy. Carry on moralising.
Edited by Khaderbhai, 13 Oct 2016, 06:55 PM.
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
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Ex BP Golly
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Nathan800
13 Oct 2016, 03:07 PM
Get over it w@nk3rs.

Everyone does it.
I know.

Our entire property bubble is based on lies and criminal behaviour- just like in America.

WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
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Rufus
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Rastus2
13 Oct 2016, 06:37 PM
I did not say the broker was not looking after my interests...

however.

Firstly - Broker did not access a desktop val, he simply added on to the guesstimate we had provided, and told me as much, along with the rationale behind it when we chatted on the phone.

Secondly - I agree, which is why the broker bumped up our estimate... I noticed the finance company then bumped up his bumped up amount to take the property guesstimate valuation up another ~30k from his 20k.
Let me see if I have this right. You stated a valuation for your house, the broker upped it, and then some finance company upped it again, and then what happened. Didn't they have a valuation done? Are there 4 parties in this? A borrower, a broker, some other finance company, and then a lender?

Quote:
 
I am hardly going to write to my bank until this is all settled and the final valuation comes back... as for any risk of LMI premium costs.. tell me, do many lenders demand LMI with a 50% LVR ? Somehow, I think we will be safe from LMI.

The lender will use the valuation, they don't care what you think your house is worth, or what the broker has added, or the finance company, or any other intermediaries in this transaction. there do seem to be a lot of parties involved BTW.


Quote:
 
I think I touched a nerve there... as for Professionals, I think this guy is fine, but please don't forget it was the professionals who were involved with much of the toxic debt in America... until it was revealed that they were less professional than it was assumed.


No you haven't touched a nerve. TBH I really don't care much these days what people think.
Yes the professionals in the USA were very unprofessional - you really should know this by now, and you should be aware of the differences between our systems and the USA systems. This is history now.

Quote:
 
Holier than thou is pretty easy when people are keen to defraud their bank, and fabricate numbers... get off your high horse and consider the multiplier effect of little white lies on top of little white lies, on top of little white lies (punter's valuation, + bump from broker, + bump from lender) .... with a valuation that is influenced by those.


What effect of white lies - the valuer will tell you what it's worth in the real world. Actually he will understate it a bit, but that's the system. Everything worth anything in hard currency or hard assets is verified. You can lie to your hearts content, but it won't make any significant difference, if any.

Seriously I'm quite over people who don't understand the system thinking that they do. Next you will be offering neurosurgery and rocket technology. Do you seriously think the bank will take your word for anything without verification?
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
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