Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 5
  • 10
Over 300,000 mortgage holders have no real equity in their homes; Mortgage holders in WA most at risk
Topic Started: 10 Oct 2016, 03:42 AM (5,853 Views)
Khaderbhai
Member Avatar
Wealthy Suburbanite

Ex BP Golly
10 Oct 2016, 08:39 PM
The word "error" isn't contained in the article- its just one of your strawmen arguments.
Doesn't need to be. The possible responses were

completely factual and accurate - 72%
mostly factual and accurate - 21%
partially factual and accurate - 5%
no response - 2%

If something is not completely factual and accurate, then it must, by definition, contain an error.

The reason for an error is unknown. Could be a mistake due to lack of information/understanding on the part of the borrower. It could even be a typo. Maybe somebody understated their income by entering net income instead of gross income etc. No biggie - the banks verify this stuff against tax and employment records.
Edited by Khaderbhai, 10 Oct 2016, 09:01 PM.
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Ex BP Golly
Member Avatar


Khaderbhai
10 Oct 2016, 08:57 PM
Doesn't need to be. The possible responses were

completely factual and accurate - 72%
mostly factual and accurate - 21%
partially factual and accurate - 5%
no response - 2%

If something is not completely factual and accurate, then it must, by definition, contain an error.

The reason for an error is unknown. Could be a mistake due to lack of information/understanding on the part of the borrower. It could even be a typo. Maybe somebody understated their income by entering net income instead of gross income etc. No biggie - the banks verify this stuff against tax and employment records.

Lol
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Khaderbhai
Member Avatar
Wealthy Suburbanite

Ex BP Golly
10 Oct 2016, 09:33 PM
Lol
Have you run out of steam Golly?
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Ex BP Golly
Member Avatar


Khaderbhai
10 Oct 2016, 09:39 PM
Have you run out of steam Golly?
No, but you clearly have.
That weasle maneuver you attempted was truly pathetic.

All I could do was laugh.
Khaderbhai
10 Oct 2016, 08:57 PM
Doesn't need to be. The possible responses were

completely factual and accurate - 72%
mostly factual and accurate - 21%
partially factual and accurate - 5%
no response - 2%

If something is not completely factual and accurate, then it must, by definition, contain an error.

The reason for an error is unknown. Could be a mistake due to lack of information/understanding on the part of the borrower. It could even be a typo. Maybe somebody understated their income by entering net income instead of gross income etc. No biggie - the banks verify this stuff against tax and employment records.
The only error that could be argued, would be an"error of judgement", but I doubt a judge would accept it.

This makes it pretty clear what UBS is talking about when they are talking about "factual and accurate statements":

"“More concerning, 41 per cent of respondents who used a broker in 2016 and misrepresented elements of their application stated they did so based on their broker’s suggestion (vs. 13 per cent for bank channel equivalent),” the report said.

Of those who said they lied on parts of their application, 14 per cent over-represented household income — 18 per cent of broker customers compared with 5 per cent who used banks.

Thirteen per cent overstated other assets, 17 per cent under-represented other financial liabilities; 26 per cent under-represented living costs, 11 per cent said “other”, 31 per cent “would rather not say”, and 12 per cent said they misrepresented multiple factors...."

Edited by Ex BP Golly, 10 Oct 2016, 10:07 PM.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Khaderbhai
Member Avatar
Wealthy Suburbanite

Ex BP Golly
10 Oct 2016, 09:59 PM
No, but you clearly have.
That weasle maneuver you attempted was truly pathetic.

All I could do was laugh.
I simply pointed out that the reason for any error is unknown, and if a borrower mistakenly understates his income for example, then it's really no big deal, since the bank will verify the details anyway. How is that a 'weasel maneuver'?
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Ex BP Golly
Member Avatar


Khaderbhai
10 Oct 2016, 10:08 PM
I simply pointed out that the reason for any error is unknown, and if a borrower mistakenly understates his income for example, then it's really no big deal, since the bank will verify the details anyway. How is that a 'weasel maneuver'?
Um......"Of those who said they lied on parts of their application, 14 per cent over-represented household income — 18 per cent of broker customers compared with 5 per cent who used banks.".

You are finding it difficult to keep up aren't you?
Edited by Ex BP Golly, 10 Oct 2016, 11:20 PM.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Blankityblank
Unregistered

A broker recently tried to get me to include my bonus as part of my income - she asked me twice if she could put it in and I had give a stern "no"
"REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Khaderbhai
Member Avatar
Wealthy Suburbanite

Ex BP Golly
10 Oct 2016, 10:44 PM
Um......"Of those who said they lied on parts of their application, 14 per cent over-represented household income — 18 per cent of broker customers compared with 5 per cent who used banks.".
That's just the UBS media spin. The questions themselves don't actually ascertain whether any misrepresentation was the result of a lie or an honest mistake. In any case, its no big deal, since the banks verify these details before granting the loan.



Blankityblank
11 Oct 2016, 12:21 AM
A broker recently tried to get me to include my bonus as part of my income - she asked me twice if she could put it in and I had give a stern "no"
That's a good example. So you've ended up understating your income.

UBS and Golly would probably call you a 'liar', but in my view you were just being overly conservative. Nothing wrong with that.

However, when the bank checks your tax returns, they'll see that your income is actually higher than stated.
Edited by Khaderbhai, 11 Oct 2016, 07:31 AM.
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Ex BP Golly
Member Avatar


Khaderbhai
10 Oct 2016, 03:37 PM
Quote:
 
Golly said: "30% lied"


Well that's not quite true, is it?

Here's what the survey you refer to actually found... http://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/buying/nearly-one-third-of-australians-lied-on-home-loan-applications-ubs-report-finds/news-story/94cd188c8e25a8741eeb9ab85b22ae25

"72 per cent said their loan application was “completely factual and accurate”, 21 per cent said they were “mostly factual and accurate”, 5 per cent said they were “partially factual and accurate”, while 2 per cent “would rather not say”."

So 72% + 21% = 93% were either completely or mostly factual and accurate.

The others may have contained errors, but an error is not necessarily a lie. It could just be a mistake.

No big deal anyway... the banks verify this stuff anyway before granting the loan, so it would be unusual for a mistake in the loan application to result in too much credit being approved (and this is also evident by the very low rate of mortgage defaults).


Got away with what? What's the normal punishment for making a mistake while filling out a form? Beheading?
Yes it is correct.

Here is another example being specific about the nature of the lies.

"Thirteen per cent overstated other assets, 17 per cent under-represented other financial liabilities; 26 per cent under-represented living costs, 11 per cent said “other”, 31 per cent “would rather not say”, and 12 per cent said they misrepresented multiple factors."
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Khaderbhai
Member Avatar
Wealthy Suburbanite

Ex BP Golly
11 Oct 2016, 07:45 AM
Here is another example being specific about the nature of the lies.
The questions themselves don't actually ascertain whether any misrepresentation was the result of a lie or an honest mistake. In any case, its no big deal, since the banks verify details before granting the loan.
Edited by Khaderbhai, 11 Oct 2016, 07:48 AM.
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums. Reliable service with over 8 years of experience.
Learn More · Register for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Australian Property Forum · Next Topic »
Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 5
  • 10



Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.

Forum Rules: The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.

Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.

Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.

This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.

For more information go to Limitations on Exclusive Rights: Fair Use

Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ

Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy