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Why every millennial should be a ‘rentvestor'
Topic Started: 19 Apr 2016, 08:39 AM (5,608 Views)
Rufus
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Veritas
20 Apr 2016, 04:10 PM
Yes, private money is important and government money is important.

None of that changes the fact that the current system ( which costs the government far more in payments to landlords than it does to maintain the public housing system) is inefficient and in need of reform.

And your claim that landlord giveaways are worth it because they are housing the poor remains a total nonsense.


Oh so the evidence that you supplied that clearly shows that the government has under supplied social housing over the last 20 years (and before that) is wrong?

Really?

Posted Image

Those two blue lines at the top are what is needed to be supplied to keep up with the estimates are they not, and the red line down at the bottom is the projected actual is it not?

Here is an article on Victoria - http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victoria-has-severe-shortage-of-public-housing-says-report-20140401-35wds.html

NSW - In NSW there were 59,035 applicants waiting for social housing at 30 June 2015. Link
Edited by Rufus, 20 Apr 2016, 04:25 PM.
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
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Veritas
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Rufus
20 Apr 2016, 04:17 PM
Oh so the evidence that you supplied that clearly shows that the government has under supplied social housing over the last 20 years (and before that) is wrong?

Really?

Posted Image

Those two blue lines at the top are what is needed to be supplied to keep up with the estimates are they not, and the red line down at the bottom is the projected actual is it not?

Here is an article on Victoria - http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victoria-has-severe-shortage-of-public-housing-says-report-20140401-35wds.html

NSW - In NSW there were 59,035 applicants waiting for social housing at 30 June 2015. Link
What is your point.

The facts demonstrate the following.

1. The social housing system is not keeping pace with demand.

2. The private rental market cannot meet demand for social housing.

Your argument that private landlords are picking up the slack is bullshit when you consider the opportunity cost: not giving free money to landlords and instead investing it in a best practice social housing system.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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Rufus
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Veritas
20 Apr 2016, 04:42 PM
What is your point.

The facts demonstrate the following.

1. The social housing system is not keeping pace with demand.

2. The private rental market cannot meet demand for social housing.

Your argument that private landlords are picking up the slack is bullshit when you consider the opportunity cost: not giving free money to landlords and instead investing it in a best practice social housing system.
That's not my argument at all. I'm saying that private landlords are NOT picking up all of the slack because there isn't enough incentive for them to do so.

Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
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Veritas
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Rufus
20 Apr 2016, 04:50 PM
That's not my argument at all. I'm saying that private landlords are NOT picking up all of the slack because there isn't enough incentive for them to do so.
Nope, you have changed your tune.

Your defense of tax giveaways in the past was that the private sector is a surrogate for public housing provision.

Anyway, the truth of the matter is this: housing people in the bottom income quintile required a government subsidy.

Far better to vest that subsidy in a social housing system than with private landlords.

Edited by Veritas, 20 Apr 2016, 04:54 PM.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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Rufus
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Veritas
20 Apr 2016, 04:53 PM
Nope, you have changed your tune.

Your defense of tax giveaways in the past was that the private sector is a surrogate for public housing provision.

Anyway, the truth of the matter is this: housing people in the bottom income quintile required a government subsidy.

Far better to vest that subsidy in a social housing system than with private landlords.
No I haven't changed at all. My point was always that the tax deductions for an IP are standard deductions that apply for every business. NG only alters the timing of the tax deduction, it doesn't alter the tax deduction itself. Almost no additional tax revenue will be raised by a change to NG.

My other point that we discussed today was that governments are not willing to spend money on social housing, so the next best alternative is to get the private sector to do that for them, which means incentives of some type. At the moment too few private citizens are interested, so more incentives are needed.

If you can talk the government into increasing it's commitment to social housing then more power to you, but I have some serious doubts.
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
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Veritas
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Quote:
 
No I haven't changed at all. My point was always that the tax deductions for an IP are standard deductions that apply for every business. NG only alters the timing of the tax deduction, it doesn't alter the tax deduction itself. Almost no additional tax revenue will be raised by a change to NG.


This old chestnut.

Whatves. Point is it makes for shite housing policy.

Quote:
 
My other point that we discussed today was that governments are not willing to spend money on social housing, so the next best alternative is to get the private sector to do that for them, which means incentives of some type. At the moment too few private citizens are interested, so more incentives are needed.

If you can talk the government into increasing it's commitment to social housing then more power to you, but I have some serious doubts.


Totally different argument.

Policy wise, it makes far more sense than the current give free money to wealthy dentists and doctors rort.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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Rufus
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Veritas
20 Apr 2016, 05:28 PM
This old chestnut.

Whatves. Point is it makes for shite housing policy.
It's an old chestnut because it's true.

Quote:
 
Totally different argument.

Policy wise, it makes far more sense than the current give free money to wealthy dentists and doctors rort.

You're giving me your ideology, I'm giving you reality.

It's not a fair trade - I want truth not dreams.
You've short changed me.
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
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Veritas
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Rufus
20 Apr 2016, 07:10 PM
It's an old chestnut because it's true.



You're giving me your ideology, I'm giving you reality.

It's not a fair trade - I want truth not dreams.
You've short changed me.
Quote:
 
It's an old chestnut because it's true.


It has nothing to do with housing policy.

Its a line spouted by Vested interest groups.

Quote:
 
You're giving me your ideology, I'm giving you reality.

It's not a fair trade - I want truth not dreams.
You've short changed me.


No, Im not.

I'm giving you policy options based on the facts.

Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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herbie
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Veritas
20 Apr 2016, 07:44 PM



It has nothing to do with housing policy.

Its a line spouted by Vested interest groups.




No, Im not.

I'm giving you policy options based on the facts.
Well, I mightn't agree with your totally f***ed up politics Veritas. Or have any faith at all in your supposed 'facts'. But you do at least come across as being a f***ing Aussie ...
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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Trollie
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Veritas
20 Apr 2016, 07:44 PM

I'm giving you policy options based on the facts.
The biggest idiots in the world always lay claim to having all the facts.

You're like the Donald Trump of apf.
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