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Glencore down 20% in just 3 hours; Massive and still dropping.
Topic Started: 28 Sep 2015, 10:40 PM (5,109 Views)
newjez
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John Frum
29 Sep 2015, 09:03 AM
Think it's time to start an APF poll to canvas some opinion on the great John Frum's October appearance.
Fifty fifty I'd say at this stage. If not now, then definitely next time.



Others think Dec more likely.


http://www.ibtimes.com/us-federal-reserve-keeps-october-rate-hike-table-odds-are-slim-2116804


I think Oct as long as there is no huge disaster right before.
Edited by newjez, 29 Sep 2015, 12:26 PM.
Whenever you have an argument with someone, there comes a moment where you must ask yourself, whatever your political persuasion, 'am I the Nazi?'
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The Whole Truth
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glencore

According to an Australian Public Radio report, "Glencore's history reads like a spy novel"
The company was founded as Marc Rich & Co. AG in 1974 by billionaire commodity trader Marc Rich, who was charged with tax evasion and illegal business dealings with Iran in the US, but pardoned by President Bill Clinton in 2001.  He was never brought before US courts before his pardoning, therefore there was never a verdict on these charges....
(Big private company, the elite protect their own)


A  BBC investigation in 2012 uncovered sale documents showing the company had paid the associates of paramilitary killers in Colombia. In 2011, a Colombian court had been told by former paramilitaries that they had stolen the land so they could sell it on to Glencore subsidiary Prodeco, to start an open-cast coal mine; the court accepted their evidence and concluded that coal was the motive for the massacre. Glencore refuted the allegations....
(Nothing gets in the way, business as usual)

When the commodities group, Glencore International made its Initial Public Offering (IPO) in May 2011 in dual listing, London and Hong Kong, valued at about $US60 billion...,
(The supercycle boom is clearly over. Go public, unload what will be basically a shell to the little people)
"Panics do not destroy capital; they merely reveal the extent to which it has been previously destroyed by its betrayal into hopelessly unproductive works." John Stuart Mill
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newjez
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The Whole Truth
29 Sep 2015, 01:54 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glencore

According to an Australian Public Radio report, "Glencore's history reads like a spy novel"
The company was founded as Marc Rich & Co. AG in 1974 by billionaire commodity trader Marc Rich, who was charged with tax evasion and illegal business dealings with Iran in the US, but pardoned by President Bill Clinton in 2001.  He was never brought before US courts before his pardoning, therefore there was never a verdict on these charges....
(Big private company, the elite protect their own)


A  BBC investigation in 2012 uncovered sale documents showing the company had paid the associates of paramilitary killers in Colombia. In 2011, a Colombian court had been told by former paramilitaries that they had stolen the land so they could sell it on to Glencore subsidiary Prodeco, to start an open-cast coal mine; the court accepted their evidence and concluded that coal was the motive for the massacre. Glencore refuted the allegations....
(Nothing gets in the way, business as usual)

When the commodities group, Glencore International made its Initial Public Offering (IPO) in May 2011 in dual listing, London and Hong Kong, valued at about $US60 billion...,
(The supercycle boom is clearly over. Go public, unload what will be basically a shell to the little people)
Enron?
Whenever you have an argument with someone, there comes a moment where you must ask yourself, whatever your political persuasion, 'am I the Nazi?'
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The Whole Truth
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Anyone. It's like I've said, these companies are not worth a fraction of their listed values once you take away the liabilities. Debts direct, bonds they sold, share options for upper management.
"Panics do not destroy capital; they merely reveal the extent to which it has been previously destroyed by its betrayal into hopelessly unproductive works." John Stuart Mill
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Admin
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Administrator

With Glencore, commodity rout beginning to look like a crisis
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Ex BP Golly
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The Whole Truth
29 Sep 2015, 04:37 PM
Anyone. It's like I've said, these companies are not worth a fraction of their listed values once you take away the liabilities. Debts direct, bonds they sold, share options for upper management.
FMG is a huge confidence trick.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
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Sydneyite
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Ex BP Golly
30 Sep 2015, 10:40 AM
FMG is a huge confidence trick.
Really? You don't think those mines and all the iron ore being loaded onto ships and sold to Chinese steel mills etc is real?
For Aussie property bears, "denial", is not just a long river in North Africa.....
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Loki
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Sydneyite
30 Sep 2015, 11:35 AM
Really? You don't think those mines and all the iron ore being loaded onto ships and sold to Chinese steel mills etc is real?
The confidence trick is convincing investors and bond holders that future cash flows will cover operations and debt servicing. Another 10% drop in the iron ore price and I think the con is blown.


“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.” - Euripides
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deluded
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Ex BP Golly
30 Sep 2015, 10:40 AM
FMG is a huge confidence trick.
Unfortunately, I believe you are correct.
Real Trump News -- Real Climate Science News -- Real Democrat Party News
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Sydneyite
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Loki
30 Sep 2015, 12:01 PM
The confidence trick is convincing investors and bond holders that future cash flows will cover operations and debt servicing. Another 10% drop in the iron ore price and I think the con is blown.
But that's not a confidence trick - that's businesses doing what businesses do. You invest understanding the risk is in long term commodity prices - if they stay at or around current level, FMG will continue to make good profits. If they half from current levels then yea they are in trouble and won't be profitable due to their cost base.

Don't heaps of bears here bemoan the fact that heaps of bank money goes into housing lending instead of to support businesses? Isn't what FMG did exactly what you all want to see happen? Capital borrowed and deployed to build a new business? Take a punt? Yet for some strange reason you all despite FMG and it's founder?
Edited by Sydneyite, 30 Sep 2015, 12:18 PM.
For Aussie property bears, "denial", is not just a long river in North Africa.....
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