Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 5
  • 21
Young couple reinvent the Japanese Property Strategy; At 24.5 years of age they "own" 22 properties, 19 acquired this year!
Topic Started: 20 Sep 2015, 11:14 AM (15,182 Views)
A Lurker
Default APF Avatar


John Frum
21 Sep 2015, 06:22 AM


And in answer to your other question yes I do covert home ownership, but only on terms that make financial sense, so with Sydney clearance rates faltering during a typically strong season, plus wage growth and rental yields dropping in tandem, and the vice tightening on hot money flows and investor lending, all with rates still at record lows, I now consider the stars aligned to signal the return of John Frum and his sacred affordable housing cargo, especially for those disciples that saved a considerable deposit and took the effort to skill up in a modern profession.

I have therefore recently hired a buyers agent to begin making enquiries.

Well done John, you are sticking with your timetable.

The extra stock on the market may expose some good buying but I suspect in the areas you are looking demand is still going to be high.

There are a lot of Sydney auctions this weekend with people avoiding the Labor Day holiday next weekend.

I'm not convinced about buyer's agents myself, particularly in strong market conditions where most things go to auction. There is almost perfect information from the buy side at a public auction that was advertised on the internet and the person with the most money (and prepared to spend it) wins. I'm also suspicious of auction strategy (bidding at the end, going up small etc) because as long as you are there at the end it doesn't really matter how you get there. Confident bidding always helps though. In the current market I can see that a buyer's agent could be handy if you are an ex-pat that is planning a return to Australia but not here yet, someone who works on Saturdays or you are just looking for an investment property and trying to maximise yield (i.e. you don't ever care about walking through the property).
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Mike
Default APF Avatar


Rastus2
21 Sep 2015, 03:27 AM
Can they do margin calls on ip bought before 2010 ?
No, all loans created after 2010 for investment properties enjoy the same protections as residential owner occupied properties. Prior to 2010 when the credit laws changes as a result of some of the issues with Bankwest and Commonwealth Bank during and after the GFC. Effectively a bank cannot call in an investment loan unless certain conditions occur such as default on the loan or missed payments.

It is to avoid a repeat of some banks doing there own valuations and asking the customer to come up with a large amount of money to bring the loan back under the required level for loan to value ratio. It was a cheap way to get more liquidity into the bank and reduce loan exposure.

All investment loans after 2010 have this protection, however any investment loan not refinanced after these changes does not enjoy these protections as far as I am aware.
http://mike-globaleconomy.blogspot.com.au/
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
stinkbug
Member Avatar


Banks don't want to margin call home loans anyway. If the owner is making the payments according to the agreed schedule, there is zero benefit to them in potentially foreclosing the loan. Why would they want a bunch of properties that they have to move at firesale prices, losing a bunch of time and money in the process, when they can simply let the owners continue to pay.

There will always be some outlier examples of where the properties fall massively (e.g. Miningsville in West Bumroot), but the majority of IPs that were viable enough to be financed in the first place can continue to run for years, even if 'underwater'.

As long as people are working and paying rent, there's no real issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------

While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Ex BP Golly
Member Avatar


Mike
21 Sep 2015, 11:09 AM
No, all loans created after 2010 for investment properties enjoy the same protections as residential owner occupied properties. Prior to 2010 when the credit laws changes as a result of some of the issues with Bankwest and Commonwealth Bank during and after the GFC. Effectively a bank cannot call in an investment loan unless certain conditions occur such as default on the loan or missed payments.

It is to avoid a repeat of some banks doing there own valuations and asking the customer to come up with a large amount of money to bring the loan back under the required level for loan to value ratio. It was a cheap way to get more liquidity into the bank and reduce loan exposure.

All investment loans after 2010 have this protection, however any investment loan not refinanced after these changes does not enjoy these protections as far as I am aware.
Even when you use a sock puppet, you are wrong Black Panther.

Your pathetic clutching of this 'fact' shows that you aren't the big brave investor you otherwise pretend to be, but a welfare parasite that believes in a free ride.

Very f sad.
stinkbug
21 Sep 2015, 11:20 AM
Banks don't want to margin call home loans anyway. If the owner is making the payments according to the agreed schedule, there is zero benefit to them in potentially foreclosing the loan. Why would they want a bunch of properties that they have to move at firesale prices, losing a bunch of time and money in the process, when they can simply let the owners continue to pay.

There will always be some outlier examples of where the properties fall massively (e.g. Miningsville in West Bumroot), but the majority of IPs that were viable enough to be financed in the first place can continue to run for years, even if 'underwater'.

As long as people are working and paying rent, there's no real issue.
So you recognise that Black Panthers mythic protections are false, and only extend to one class of citizens: retirees who have reversed mortgaged their homes.

The regulators are failing in letting Black Panther/ Mike push this false and misleading investment advice.

BP / Mike might just be socks on a web site, but how many fools might actually believe him?

Maybe you could tell readers the truth a little more plainly than you have above.
Edited by Ex BP Golly, 21 Sep 2015, 11:43 AM.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
stinkbug
Member Avatar


Ex BP Golly
21 Sep 2015, 11:29 AM

So you recognise that Black Panthers mythic protections are false, and only extend to one class of citizens: retirees who have reversed mortgaged their homes.

The regulators are failing in letting Black Panther/ Mike push this false and misleading investment advice.

BP / Mike might just be socks on a web site, but how many fools might actually believe him?

Maybe you could tell readers the truth a little more plainly than you have above.
Which investment advice, and protections, are you referring to?
---------------------------------------------------------------

While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Ex BP Golly
Member Avatar


stinkbug
21 Sep 2015, 12:23 PM
Which investment advice, and protections, are you referring to?
NCCP Act and the protections Shadow thinks are built into it giving him a protected, one way trip to vast riches.
Damn Why do I keep confusing Shodow with Black Panther!

Lol
Edited by Ex BP Golly, 21 Sep 2015, 12:49 PM.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
stinkbug
Member Avatar


Ex BP Golly
21 Sep 2015, 12:48 PM
NCCP Act and the protections Shadow thinks are built into it giving him a protected, one way trip to vast riches.
Damn Why do I keep confusing Shodow with Black Panther!

Lol
'One way trip to vast riches' has nothing to do with this. The issue is that if the loan remains in good standing (ie paid up on time), the bank has no reason to call in the loan.

How the investor/owner uses the loan, and manages the property, are different issues entirely.
---------------------------------------------------------------

While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
herbie
Member Avatar


John Frum
21 Sep 2015, 06:22 AM
I think I am wise to eschew it up until now. I have the means to purchase but am aware of the stupidity and delusion that afflicts people involved in the Australian property market, stupidity that extends to both members of my own family, and the 2 naive fools in the OP.

Like Jimbo has stated, the property gravy train departed years ago, anyone levering up now without a decent job is looking at a lot of pain. What couples like this should have been aware of is that if there was easy money to be made in this sort of business a big corporation would have muscled them out with economies of scale by now.

And in answer to your other question yes I do covert home ownership, but only on terms that make financial sense, so with Sydney clearance rates faltering during a typically strong season, plus wage growth and rental yields dropping in tandem, and the vice tightening on hot money flows and investor lending, all with rates still at record lows, I now consider the stars aligned to signal the return of John Frum and his sacred affordable housing cargo, especially for those disciples that saved a considerable deposit and took the effort to skill up in a modern profession.

I have therefore recently hired a buyers agent to begin making enquiries.

Herbie - I sense a frustration brewing, perhaps to do with my recent tirades against you? You know, the ones where I call out your hypocrisy for espousing a socially caring side while at the same time bad-mouthing people like David Collier that propose land taxes which could genuinely help those for whom you have shed all these crocodile tears?
You said something pretty ridiculous (the tree thing) given where you are fundamentally coming from regarding desiring home ownership John, and I called you on it.

With you apparently not appreciating being called on it? - To the extent where you go looking for me re supposed frustration and hypocrisy on my part.

Well OK, to address same:

The supposed hypocrisy re Socialism - I see no fundamental conflict in recognising that while there are genuine cases out there who need a helping hand to get by (which I'm very happy to see given to them) that Socialists are just effing idiots to pay so little attention to the fact that it does seem to be a pretty inherent part of human nature to want to improve one's lot financially; And as such, for them to not realise that Socialism is fundamentally at odds with something that is an inherent part of human nature; And that we'd be effing idiots as well if we didn't recognise that to the extent Socialists just might be successful in implementing full on Socialism, what they really are being successful in is creating an ever increasing bunch of bludging free loaders. With that in itself inevitably sowing the seeds for the destruction of their beloved egalitarian Socialist system.

As to the supposed hypocrisy re Georgism (and that Aussie dill David Collyer who promotes it) the story is pretty much ditto as above for Socialism - In that Henry George possibly failed to understand the immense obstacles to implementing a system that was fundamental at odds with what would seem to have historically and currently still be, a pretty natural human desire to acquire land and resources and profit from the ownership thereof. Though in fairness to George, whilst being NO expert on it myself, I suspect he was probably much more after 'the land barons' of his day as opposed to 'the homesteaders' of his day? But silly bloody Collyer's even got the knife into the average basic Joe Six Pack 'homesteader' of our modern era. And wants to tax him to death TOO! So he's a VERY unrealistic dill. And gets what he deserves - For mine - With that being pretty much squat to date at least apparently!?!

Now my fundamental approach tends to be to say Yes, the desires to get ahead financially and acquire land and resources, are so ingrained in most people anyway (hopefully anyway!!! - with the alternative of them not being so, not sounding especially attractive to me at all) that we best just accept this is so and develop systems that recognise and support these desires, rather than fight them - If we want to have systems that just might have some sort of chance of being successful long term.

And in having said that, as you seem SO keen to nail me for some sort of fundamental 'HYPOCRISY', you VERY well could be in with a shot (or three) - Because while I incline to supporting systems that recognise the inherent desires of humans to get ahead financially/acquire land and resources for the benefit of them and theirs blah, blah, because these seem to be pretty natural things to want to do (from my observations anyway):

* Potential Shot A: I'm NOT inclined to support systems that actively encourage people to become bludging layabouts - Despite the fact it could be argued a desire to become a bludging layabout just could be pretty inherent part of human nature ALSO maybe? and

* Potential Shot B: It can pretty easily be turned around to say that in wanting to acquire land and resources from which one can profit, one is just displaying their natural tendency to want to become a bludging layabout anyway - Which is something I've previously said (or at least strongly implied?) I DON'T support perhaps? and

* Potential Shot C: If you can't dream up AT LEAST ONE of your own, I'll be quite disappointed in you John ...

So finally, to the "frustrated" 'accusation' - Well as it happens, I'm pretty content. In most ways anyway Ta. And in any ways I'm not, I very much doubt you have the ability or capacity to assist me in becoming more content - So don't see any point telling you all my supposed little 'issues and problems'. Though will admit, some pretty strange things DO seem to be being proposed by some pretty strange people in the world these days. But with me saying Oh well, it will be what it be and I'm pretty bloody confident I'll make the bloody best of it regardless - And if I bloody don't, then on my own bloody head be it! :)

Edited by herbie, 21 Sep 2015, 01:14 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Ex BP Golly
Member Avatar


stinkbug
21 Sep 2015, 01:00 PM
'One way trip to vast riches' has nothing to do with this. The issue is that if the loan remains in good standing (ie paid up on time), the bank has no reason to call in the loan.

How the investor/owner uses the loan, and manages the property, are different issues entirely.
That is true, unless there is a default.
In this context, (painting your house purple aside) a default is - if the value falls below a prescribed level as covered in the contract.

The only people protected from this are those who have taken out a reverse mortgage.

WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
ThePauk
Member Avatar
Diamond Member
Quick Herbs, have you checked under your bed for a red?

Have you ever though the world make be shades of grey and not just black and white?
Edited by ThePauk, 21 Sep 2015, 01:16 PM.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Learn More · Register Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Australian Property Forum · Next Topic »
Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 5
  • 21



Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.

Forum Rules: The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.

Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.

Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.

This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.

For more information go to Limitations on Exclusive Rights: Fair Use

Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ

Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy