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Young couple reinvent the Japanese Property Strategy; At 24.5 years of age they "own" 22 properties, 19 acquired this year!
Topic Started: 20 Sep 2015, 11:14 AM (15,172 Views)
Mike
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Shadow
22 Sep 2015, 10:35 PM
That's not an NCCP Regulated Mortgage Contract.

It's an information booklet listing a broad range of terms and conditions, some of which apply to regulated contracts, and some to unregulated contracts.
He wont be able to produce a NCCP contract with such a clause as none exist.

I find it funny he thinks I am you're sock when you and I do not often comment on the same threads or topics.
http://mike-globaleconomy.blogspot.com.au/
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Shadow
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Mike
22 Sep 2015, 10:39 PM
He wont be able to produce a NCCP contract with such a clause as none exist.

I find it funny he thinks I am you're sock when you and I do not often comment on the same threads or topics.
It's very strange. Last time we discussed it, on the 200-page thread, half a dozen members with NCCP regulated mortgages confirmed that their contracts didn't contain such a clause. Some members scanned and posted their contracts as proof.

Yet Golly has convinced himself that all contracts contain this clause, despite being unable to find a single regulated contract that contains it.

In fact he hasn't been able to find anyone, bull or bear, who even says their own regulated contract includes it.

Golly owns a house himself. It's odd that he hasn't even been able to scan a copy of his own contract containing this mysterious clause.

It's very bizarre behaviour.
Edited by Shadow, 22 Sep 2015, 11:02 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Ex BP Golly
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Shadow
22 Sep 2015, 11:00 PM
It's very strange. Last time we discussed it, on the 200-page thread, half a dozen members with NCCP regulated mortgages confirmed that their contracts didn't contain such a clause. Some members scanned and posted their contracts as proof.

Yet Golly has convinced himself that all contracts contain this clause, despite being unable to find a single regulated contract that contains it.

In fact he hasn't been able to find anyone, bull or bear, who even says their own regulated contract includes it.

Golly owns a house himself. It's odd that he hasn't even been able to scan a copy of his own contract containing this mysterious clause.

It's very bizarre behaviour.
Read it again. It is what it says it is.

It is contractually part of the CBA consumer mortgage contract, regulated under the NCCP Act and dated Sept 2015.

In fact it says on p.3 "this credit guide applies if we may enter into a credit Contact with you regulated by the National Consumer Credit Protection Act."

It doesn't get any clearer.

Do you not see that?


Edited by Ex BP Golly, 22 Sep 2015, 11:15 PM.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
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Shadow
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Ex BP Golly
22 Sep 2015, 11:09 PM
In fact it says on p.3 "this credit guide applies if we may enter into a credit Contact with you regulated by the National Consumer Credit Protection Act."
The credit guide is the section on page 3 only. Not the whole booklet. The credit guide section of the booklet does not contain the clause.

The info booklet itself can't legally 'apply' to anything. The document that applies legally is the contract with your signature on it.

The info booklet covers regulated loans, unregulated loans, Mortgage Interest Saver Accounts, Lines of Credit, Equity Unlock Loans for Seniors, and mortgaged goods.

Not every term in the booklet applies to every CBA contract. Many terms are specific to particular products.

As the booklet says in Part F, to understand which terms apply to your specific contract, you need to read the actual contract.

The info booklet is not a contract. It's a "catch all" guidebook explaining the meaning of CBA's terms, so that when somebody looks at their actual contract, and wants more detail on a particular term, they can go to the guidebook for more information.
Edited by Shadow, 22 Sep 2015, 11:29 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Ex BP Golly
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Shadow
22 Sep 2015, 11:20 PM
An info booklet can't legally 'apply' to anything. The document that applies legally is the contract with your signature on it.

The info booklet covers regulated loans, unregulated loans, Mortgage Interest Saver Accounts, Lines of Credit, Equity Unlock Loans for Seniors, and mortgaged goods.

Not every term in the booklet applies to every CBA contract. Many terms are specific to particular products.

As the booklet says in Part F, to understand which terms apply to your specific contract, you need to read the actual contract.

The info booklet is not a contract.
Umm....it plainly says "Consumer Mortgage Lending Products" and plainly says "this credit guide applies if we may enter into a credit Contract with you regulated by the National Consumer Credit Protection Act.".

It is just a booklet until you sign a contract with the bank, then upon signing, it becomes part of the terms and conditions.
Edited by Ex BP Golly, 22 Sep 2015, 11:32 PM.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
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Shadow
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Ex BP Golly
22 Sep 2015, 11:29 PM
Umm....it plainly says "Consumer Mortgage Lending Products" and plainly says "this credit guide applies if we may enter into a credit Contact with you regulated by the National Consumer Credit Protection Act."
The 'credit guide' is the small section on page 3 only (the bit with the subtitle saying 'Credit Guide').

The credit guide section of the booklet does not contain the clause.

Did you think the entire information booklet was the credit guide? :bl:

Quote:
 
It is just a booklet until you sign a contract with the bank, then upon signing, it becomea part of the terms and conditions.
No, it doesn't. The terms and conditions that apply to the borrower are the ones included in the contract that the borrower signs.
Edited by Shadow, 22 Sep 2015, 11:34 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Shadow
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Ex BP Golly
22 Sep 2015, 11:09 PM
In fact it says on p.3 "this credit guide applies if we may enter into a credit Contact with you regulated by the National Consumer Credit Protection Act."
Here you go... I have highlighted the entire Credit Guide for you. Show me where it says the bank can repossess a home because it fell in value...

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Attachments: CBA_Credit_Guide.jpg (172.87 KB)
Edited by Shadow, 22 Sep 2015, 11:41 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Ex BP Golly
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I now realise I have taken the words "CBA: Consumer Lending Products: Terms and Conditions" completely out of context.

With Shadows assistance, I now know that it neither means what it says, nor has any legal relevance what so ever!

I've also clearly taken it out of context when at Section 2. "General Terms and Conditions That Apply to All Loans" CBA says "Your obligations under the Contract are to be secured by the Security stated at Item K of the Schedule. The Security must be in the form or forms of our usual security documents and as we reasonably require. You agree that the Contract is a Secured Agreement for the purposes of any mortgage or other Security stated within the Contract or any variation to the Contract."

Obviously CBA also doesn't mean "The value of and title to the Security Property must be to our reasonable satisfaction at all times during the term of the Contract. We may obtain a new valuation of any Security Property".

Clearly this has a very different meaning I was unable to understand without Shadows patient guidance and instruction.

I can't thank him enough.

I now realise how much money I waste on legal advice that is quite obviously wrong, and I shall never ever waste my time or money engaging lawyers or barristers ever again.

I now also realise the errors of my thought processes, and with complete trust in Shadows superior understanding of these matters tell everyone as he does, not to worry about these types of documents from banks.

They clearly have no meaning or relevance, legal or otherwise, and it is obvious to me now that Banks just put these things out to keep the team in the sheltered workshop busy.

I now feel sick at the thought of all they money I've given to lawyers, that if leveraged properly could have provided me with at least a few more properties.

God, I could kick myself!

Again thank you Shadow. You are amazing!






Edited by Ex BP Golly, 23 Sep 2015, 07:04 AM.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
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Shadow
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Ex BP Golly
23 Sep 2015, 06:58 AM
Again thank you Shadow. You are amazing!
You're welcome. But if you ever do manage to find an actual contract containing the clause, then we can move to the next phase of the discussion - i.e. why such a clause would only be enforceable in circumstances where the borrower is actually at fault (for example, they deliberately damage the security), and why the Court would never grant a repossession order and kick an innocent family out on the street if the property value simply fell due to normal market forces.

I think we're already both in agreement that it wouldn't make commercial sense for a bank to even try it anyway (another reason why it has never happened).
Edited by Shadow, 23 Sep 2015, 08:50 AM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Mike
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Ex BP Golly
22 Sep 2015, 11:29 PM
Umm....it plainly says "Consumer Mortgage Lending Products" and plainly says "this credit guide applies if we may enter into a credit Contract with you regulated by the National Consumer Credit Protection Act.".

It is just a booklet until you sign a contract with the bank, then upon signing, it becomes part of the terms and conditions.
So let me get this right.

You have now moved on from clauses in a contract, which you could not provide any proof of. To now it is in a information book let from CBA :wak:

Are you insane, it is just what it states it is. A information booklet. It is not a legally binding contract with all the clauses listed and signed by both parties.

I would certainly like to see you go to court and try and wriggle out of a binding contract as the information booklet provided was misinterpreted by yourself as evidence of a clause in a loan even though no such clause exists in the contract you signed.

So we are at the point as you cannot find one NCCP regulated contract that has the clause you state it does (no other bear coming to your rescue here) so you are desperate enough to try and palm and information booklet off as proof the clause exists in a contract despite not being able to produce one contract with the said clause.

Just produce one contract, your own contract for the house you live in will do. Copy it, black all the personal information and scan it. Only take 5 minutes.
http://mike-globaleconomy.blogspot.com.au/
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