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Don't blame the Chinese, hang on, should you?; Domain mudding the waters again
Topic Started: 3 Sep 2015, 06:09 PM (4,034 Views)
herbie
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Chris
29 Sep 2015, 06:43 PM
herb, you are so tunnel visioned its not funny but I'm happy to point out how FI is affecting even the $500k market. You may recall a little while back I spoke about land purchases by foreign developers and then units built that would be sold to FI only with no option for locals to buy??

A closed circuit system I think I referred to it as, the Bulls thought it was hypothetical nonsense.

http://www.domain.com.au/news/overseas-buyers-invited-to-have-first-dibs-on-melbourne-developments-20150924-gjubly/

Have a read and it will become clearer.

Let's see if Scottu Morrison can do as little as Hockey did to 'identify' FI circumventing the system and purchasing illegally. How many of these apartments were listed with the FIRB?? I have a number in mind, can you guess it?
I suspect I'm not nearly as 'tunnel visioned' as you assume Chris?

Look at it this way maybe:

24% of Aussies were born overseas. If the OS family of those Aussies genuinely want some of their family money to come here and buy some Oz property for whatever reasons, it WILL come here and be used to buy property regardless of whether you think it's a good and desirable thing or not.

With the challenge for you being how do you get a home for yourself regardless - Assuming you want one. (As you seem to.)

Not that it's any of my business. And not that I should effing care in any way really.

Given I'm NOT your effing local pollie who is paid to pretend he cares about you or your daddy who just maybe could care about you.

But have my own mob to care about.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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Chris
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herbie
29 Sep 2015, 07:38 PM
I suspect I'm not nearly as 'tunnel visioned' as you assume Chris?

Look at it this way maybe:

24% of Aussies were born overseas. If the OS family of those Aussies genuinely want some of their family money to come here and buy some Oz property for whatever reasons, it WILL come here and be used to buy property regardless of whether you think it's a good and desirable thing or not.

With the challenge for you being how do you get a home for yourself regardless - Assuming you want one. (As you seem to.)

Not that it's any of my business. And not that I should effing care in any way really.

Given I'm NOT your effing local pollie who is paid to pretend he cares about you or your daddy who just maybe could care about you.

But have my own mob to care about.
Herb, you're emotional. As they say you need to treat property related endeavours with the mind not the heart, remove the emotion and you will see i am not arguing whether the system is fair for me as an individual but a holistic view of what this foreign incursion may or may not bring to you, me and the nation.

If I am to own anything in this world it falls to me to find a way, I don't believe I've asked anyone for assistance or claimed a right for special concessions (unlike you investors). I have however pointed out the plethora of subsidies, concessions, leeching policies that exist to make the journey for FHB to owning property as hard as possible.

I think the current sell off will be looked back on by future generations as a disgrace and at best a short sighted short term money grab by a generation that will leave the generation behind them worse off in every way. In fact it will reflect the greed of that generation to sell off everything and anything knowing they are putting future generations at a disadvantage for their wealth creation.

Herb you and Shads can high five eachother for incaptulating and epitomising what that generation think and believe.

You talk about taking care of your own mob but can't acknowledge the bigger picture and what property prices have done to this nation, nope no tunnel vision there at all.
Edited by Chris, 29 Sep 2015, 10:54 PM.
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herbie
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Chris
29 Sep 2015, 10:53 PM
Herb, you're emotional. As they say you need to treat property related endeavours with the mind not the heart, remove the emotion and you will see i am not arguing whether the system is fair for me as an individual but a holistic view of what this foreign incursion may or may not bring to you, me and the nation.

If I am to own anything in this world it falls to me to find a way, I don't believe I've asked anyone for assistance or claimed a right for special concessions (unlike you investors). I have however pointed out the plethora of subsidies, concessions, leeching policies that exist to make the journey for FHB to owning property as hard as possible.

I think the current sell off will be looked back on by future generations as a disgrace and at best a short sighted short term money grab by a generation that will leave the generation behind them worse off in every way. In fact it will reflect the greed of that generation to sell off everything and anything knowing they are putting future generations at a disadvantage for their wealth creation.

Herb you and Shads can high five eachother for incaptulating and epitomising what that generation think and believe.

You talk about taking care of your own mob but can't acknowledge the bigger picture and what property prices have done to this nation, nope no tunnel vision there at all.
Moan about it if that suits. Or potentially profit from it. And in a worst case scenario at least attempt to position yourself to financially survive it. The choice is yours.
Edited by herbie, 30 Sep 2015, 05:20 AM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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Chris
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herbie
30 Sep 2015, 05:13 AM
Moan about it if that suits. Or potentially profit from it. And in a worst case scenario at least attempt to position yourself to financially survive it. The choice is yours.
Typical boomer Herb, 'not our problem', 'the toughest will survive' etc etc. your generation create the stifling conditions but refuse to be accountable because accountability means you need to give back some of your gains or forgo future gains. Not just in housing but everything your generation touched:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-07/calls-for-electricity-regulation-as-victorian-power-bills-soar/6600330

Privatising a necessity like electricity, then deregulate it so we can allow the private company to charge whatever they like. We now have the highest electricity bills in the world!! There's something to be proud of herb, then we can look at Telstra and telecommunication costs since it was privatised and compare our data charges to the world. Then look at health care, your generation has literally fucked the whole thing right up.

Now you are essentially selling the nations housing, farms and commodities to FI to keep your PF ticking.

But as you say I'll just position myself to survive, shouldn't expect much more than that should I???
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The Whole Truth
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Chris
29 Sep 2015, 10:53 PM
Herb, you're emotional. As they say you need to treat property related endeavours with the mind not the heart, remove the emotion and you will see i am not arguing whether the system is fair for me as an individual but a holistic view of what this foreign incursion may or may not bring to you, me and the nation.

I think the current sell off will be looked back on by future generations as a disgrace and at best a short sighted short term money grab by a generation.
Herbs is very emotional, he has watched far too much television in his life and been infuenced by the incessant emotional spin they put on everything. Go to the Phillipines and try to buy land, you can't now unless you were born there, they learnt trom the marcos days and changed the laws. How dare they! How racist is that. Go try and buy land in Switzerland or Japan or a host of other leading nations and see how far you get. The Japanese are one of the most racist nations on earth but since there television doesn't paint what they do as racist they are fine believing it's nationalism. At a personal level they hate the chinese and the chinese hate them but we ignore that fact and cover it up for trade purposes.

Australia has sold its self like a cheap whore and herbs has done so as well. He's a servant of political correctness, for whatever drivel the 6 O clock news cares to pump into his lazy head.
"Panics do not destroy capital; they merely reveal the extent to which it has been previously destroyed by its betrayal into hopelessly unproductive works." John Stuart Mill
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Rastus2
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Chris
29 Sep 2015, 06:43 PM
herb, you are so tunnel visioned its not funny but I'm happy to point out how FI is affecting even the $500k market. You may recall a little while back I spoke about land purchases by foreign developers and then units built that would be sold to FI only with no option for locals to buy??

A closed circuit system I think I referred to it as, the Bulls thought it was hypothetical nonsense.

http://www.domain.com.au/news/overseas-buyers-invited-to-have-first-dibs-on-melbourne-developments-20150924-gjubly/

Have a read and it will become clearer.

Let's see if Scottu Morrison can do as little as Hockey did to 'identify' FI circumventing the system and purchasing illegally. How many of these apartments were listed with the FIRB?? I have a number in mind, can you guess it?


I believe the limit on a new build is $3 M.

That pretty much ensures that many new build complexes can, and will be attractive for FI to buy, the developer simply needs to submit the paperwork (and pay the fee) beforehand.

New dwellings bought from a developer that has pre-approval
You do not need the Government’s approval to buy new dwellings in developments where the developer has provided a copy of the pre-approval certificate.
Foreign persons (and their associates20) are able to purchase interests of up to a total of $3 million in new dwellings, within a single development from a developer that has pre-approval to sell to foreign persons. Foreign persons need to apply separately if they wish to buy interests in new dwellings in the same development above the $3 million limit.
Shadow - Defrauded his Bank ? 2015 I have 9 different loans and my bank had no idea which ones were personal and which were investment. They had half of them classed incorrectly. When this change came in they asked me to tell them if any personal loans were incorrectly classed as investment, which I did, and they switched them to personal for the lower rate. They also had a couple of investment loans incorrectly classed as personal. They didn't ask me about those. So they stay on the lower rate too. Worked out pretty well. :)
Shadow - 2008 Sydney Median House Price 1.25M by 2014-2015

Shadow : I think this boom has already begun in several cities. My prediction :
Peak of boom: 2014-2015. Sydney Median Price: $1,250,000 Bottom of bust: 2017-2018. Sydney Median Price: $1,100,000

Shadow's Original 2010 House Boom and Crash prediction http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/shady-orig-2010-chart.png.html?sort=3&o=0

Shadow's attempt to edit his 2010 chart in 2015 and replace it with one that does not show a crash in 2013 http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-06%20at%207.12.52%20pm_1.png.html
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herbie
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Chris
30 Sep 2015, 07:06 AM
Typical boomer Herb, 'not our problem', 'the toughest will survive' etc etc. your generation create the stifling conditions but refuse to be accountable because accountability means you need to give back some of your gains or forgo future gains. Not just in housing but everything your generation touched:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-07/calls-for-electricity-regulation-as-victorian-power-bills-soar/6600330

Privatising a necessity like electricity, then deregulate it so we can allow the private company to charge whatever they like. We now have the highest electricity bills in the world!! There's something to be proud of herb, then we can look at Telstra and telecommunication costs since it was privatised and compare our data charges to the world. Then look at health care, your generation has literally fucked the whole thing right up.

Now you are essentially selling the nations housing, farms and commodities to FI to keep your PF ticking.

But as you say I'll just position myself to survive, shouldn't expect much more than that should I???
I'm not selling anything Chris - I buy for cash - And keep! ... :)

But that bit of 'fun' aside, try to think your accusations through a bit logically dude ...

If us Aussie baby boomers were the totally self centred and all powerful force you've presumably been told we are, do you reckon we would have manipulated the system as you accuse us of doing so as we are entering retirement and pretty obviously expecting to see our incomes drop given we'll not be working, to achieve such outcomes as:

* High charges on stuff like electricity (as mentioned by you) that probably make up a somewhat larger percentage spend on our fixed expenses income wise than they do for you

* A highly volatile stock market where any retirement loot we may have in stashed there certainly does look like it could get well and truly whacked pretty much any time

* The lowest interest rates in 3,000 yrs giving us shit returns on the nice safe cash and bonds type investments that we really would like to be quite heavily into retirement

* The prices of homes in a couple of bits of the nation being so high that various assorted dills are salivating at the prospect of forcing their baby boomer owners to flog them off to pay their aged pensions. (Plus those of the non-homeowners! ... :D )

Ferk, it's even JUST possible we (according whoever's been feeding you shit) all powerful, controlling and evil manipulating baby boomers could get to be the first generation in recorded history that's EVER gone into retirement with NEGATIVE interest rates - Which definitely WOULDN'T be a nice prospect for us! IMO anyway.


Nah, your shit just doesn't stand up when examined logically Chris - But hey, if it suits you to keep believing it, then go ahead. (But I'll keep telling you you're effed in the head for doing so.)


PS: As for the nasty foreigners buying 'our' national whatever type assets being a baby boomer inspired thing ... What, the baby boomers had a referendum when we all got to voting age to overturn the established law that had always prevented this from happening in the past did we? (Specifically so we could benefit from overturning such a law to your detriment?? ... ) Don't bloody think so, but anyway, Link Please??? And in absence of same, once again, I call Crap Chris!


Christ this is boring, but to continue, one more:

PPS: Surely you can't ACTUALLY think the baby boomers got any more active say in what interest rates 'n whatever were in our day than in what you get now can you? Ferk, truth be told we got EVEN LESS potential input than you do I'd reckon - With you lot at least having the internet 'n wotnot to squawk about your general dissatisfaction about on - And just maybe a little bit occasionally be heard.


You are living in a fantasy land chock a block FULL of patently obviously illogical/just out and out false thoughts Chris.

And seriously dude - THAT'S effing YOUR problem - Not effing mine.

Edited by herbie, 30 Sep 2015, 08:17 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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Chris
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herbie
30 Sep 2015, 08:11 PM
I'm not selling anything Chris - I buy for cash - And keep! ... :)

But that bit of 'fun' aside, try to think your accusations through a bit logically dude ...

If us Aussie baby boomers were the totally self centred and all powerful force you've presumably been told we are, do you reckon we would have manipulated the system as you accuse us of doing so as we are entering retirement and pretty obviously expecting to see our incomes drop given we'll not be working, to achieve such outcomes as:

* High charges on stuff like electricity (as mentioned by you) that probably make up a somewhat larger percentage spend on our fixed expenses income wise than they do for you

* A highly volatile stock market where any retirement loot we may have in stashed there certainly does look like it could get well and truly whacked pretty much any time

* The lowest interest rates in 3,000 yrs giving us shit returns on the nice safe cash and bonds type investments that we really would like to be quite heavily into retirement

* The prices of homes in a couple of bits of the nation being so high that various assorted dills are salivating at the prospect of forcing their baby boomer owners to flog them off to pay their aged pensions. (Plus those of the non-homeowners! ... :D )

Ferk, it's even JUST possible we (according whoever's been feeding you shit) all powerful, controlling and evil manipulating baby boomers could get to be the first generation in recorded history that's EVER gone into retirement with NEGATIVE interest rates - Which definitely WOULDN'T be a nice prospect for us! IMO anyway.


Nah, your shit just doesn't stand up when examined logically Chris - But hey, if it suits you to keep believing it, then go ahead. (But I'll keep telling you you're effed in the head for doing so.)


PS: As for the nasty foreigners buying 'our' national whatever type assets being a baby boomer inspired thing ... What, the baby boomers had a referendum when we all got to voting age to overturn the established law that had always prevented this from happening in the past did we? (Specifically so we could benefit from overturning such a law to your detriment?? ... ) Don't bloody think so, but anyway, Link Please??? And in absence of same, once again, I call Crap Chris!


Christ this is boring, but to continue, one more:

PPS: Surely you can't ACTUALLY think the baby boomers got any more active say in what interest rates 'n whatever were in our day than in what you get now can you? Ferk, truth be told we got EVEN LESS potential input than you do I'd reckon - With you lot at least having the internet 'n wotnot to squawk about your general dissatisfaction about on - And just maybe a little bit occasionally be heard.


You are living in a fantasy land chock a block FULL of patently obviously illogical/just out and out false thoughts Chris.

And seriously dude - THAT'S effing YOUR problem - Not effing mine.
Herb you have completely missed the point as usual.

You as an individual or as a generation haven't engineered anything, there is no grand plan and that's my point. What I am trying to get through your senility is that as a generation be that either PM's of ceo's you have all been incredibly selfish and concentrated on short term gains with no regard to how those decisions will affect anyone but yourselves.

None of what I mentioned is anything more than fragmented poor decision making by vested selfish arseholes who have fed off this nations prosperity knowing it would mean a lesser quality of life for their kids and grand kids. Its all about power, like you said herb 'you' believe it's 'your' job to look after 'your' mob. I would have thought your job would be to make them capable of being self sufficient not hampered by a system that relies on assistance to her going.

Maybe that's the point, boomers are sociopaths who believe they should have the balance of power??

Who knows, who cares all I know is you don't get it and the more you try and make me look like a sook the more you prove you don't get it.
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herbie
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Chris
30 Sep 2015, 09:05 PM
Its all about power, like you said herb 'you' believe it's 'your' job to look after 'your' mob. I would have thought your job would be to make them capable of being self sufficient not hampered by a system that relies on assistance to her going.
Their somewhat trendier Gen X parents take that approach Chris.

But it's just more my natural role to take a watch 'n see/sit back 'n wait/see how it all unfolds 'n prevent any bad shit happening to the best of my ability.

'N if that makes me a controlling sociopathic arsehole, then you can be VERY sure I'll continue to happily wear the handle.

With that being me at this time - Irrespective of whether it gains your approval or not.
Edited by herbie, 30 Sep 2015, 09:29 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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Oh shit. That "2%" will now become .02%


Beijing crackdown on cash withdrawals likely to hit Australian property market


The Chinese government has tightened restrictions on cash withdrawals from foreign ATMs, a move which could affect tourism spending in Australia and even spill over into the local property market.

The crackdown comes three days before the beginning of the week-long national holiday, which will see an influx of big spending Chinese tourists into Australia.

It's the latest effort by Beijing to prevent a sharp devaluation of the yuan, which has come under sustained pressure in recent months from record capital outflows as the economy slows.

"There is a very big fear from the top leadership that China will experience large capital flight," said the chief China economist at ANZ, Liu Li-gang. "This is an effort to close loop holes and prevent the yuan from depreciating further."

The new rules limit overseas cash withdrawals from China's Union Pay service to a total of 50,000 yuan ($10,800) for the period between October 1 and December 31 this year.

For 2016 the limit for an individual is an annual 100,000 yuan ($21,800), according to an announcement posted on the website of the State Administration of Foreign Exchange (SAFE) on Tuesday.

Under the old rules, there was a daily limit of 10,000 yuan.

This is the first time China has sought to place an annual cap on overseas cash withdrawals from Union Pay and follows a similar crackdown on bank transfers earlier this month.

"Cash withdrawals via Union Pay were one of the known legal ways to get money out of the country," said one banker who asked not to be named.

He said it was possible to withdraw as much as $2,000 a day from a single Chinese account using the Union Pay service at an Australian ATM. He said this process could be repeated from multiple Chinese bank accounts and could easily see $70,000 taken out of China in a single week.

"It's a slow process but it's not hard to see how this could form the deposit for a pretty good apartment," he said.

Another banking industry source said the crackdown on overseas cash withdrawals was a sure sign there was significant "capital leakage" via this channel.

"It always surprised me that Union Pay was not regulated more strongly," he said.

Cash withdrawals are popular among Chinese tourists as they often attract lower fees than using a credit card or debit card.

Many Chinese students also use cash withdrawals from Union Pay cards to cover living expenses and tuition while overseas.

"[The new regulation] just makes it that little bit more difficult to get money out of the country," said ANZ's Mr Liu. "It will be a speed bump for a few months."

He said there could be some impact on luxury goods retailers and others which rely on discretionary spending, like restaurants.

It is unclear at this stage if China's banking system is sophisticated enough to prevent overseas cash withdrawals from multiple accounts held in the same name.

Union Pay confirmed to The Australian Financial Review the new restrictions don't apply to purchases using its debit card via a foreign point-of-sale machine.

Cash withdrawals overseas were the easiest way to get around China's closed capital account, which only allows individuals to transfer $US50,000 out of the country each year.

China has previously tolerated the many "grey channels" used to get around this rule, but has tightened up enforcement in recent months amid fears of capital flight.

Two weeks ago the AFR was told Chinese banks had set-up watch lists to monitor unusual foreign exchange transactions.

This has seen a crack down on family and friends of those wanting to purchase foreign property, using their US$50,000 quota to transfer money into a single overseas account.

The purchaser would often then pay back friends and family in China and then use the offshore money to put down a deposit on an apartment.

However, Chinese banks are now tracking the source of funds for overseas bank accounts which have received more than US$200,000 within 90 days, according to one bank manager, who works in Shanghai for one of the major state-owned banks.

The crackdown is also said to be affecting trading companies, which have been asked to submit more supporting documents to verify transactions, according reports in the local media.

According to Bloomberg calculations, China saw a record $US141.7 billion leave the country in August, up from $US125 billion in July, which was also a record high.
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