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Who Benefits from High House Prices?
Topic Started: 24 Aug 2015, 06:52 PM (6,602 Views)
Chris
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Shadow
26 Aug 2015, 01:38 PM
House price to income ratios have remained fairly constant since 2003. This is a fact.
A fact that ignores all other facts. Well done grey man
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Shadow
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GloomBoomDoom
26 Aug 2015, 01:51 PM
What where they between 1983-1993 and also 1993-2003?
I already posted the chart...

Posted Image
Chris
26 Aug 2015, 01:51 PM
A fact that ignores all other facts
Facts can't 'ignore' other facts. Your statement is meaningless. Australia's house price to income ratio has been fairly steady for over a decade. This is a fact. There are other facts in the world - for example, 2 is greater than 1, but these other facts don't negate the fact that Australia's house price to income ratio has been fairly steady for over a decade.
Edited by Shadow, 26 Aug 2015, 02:01 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Yes you have convenient picked a starting point after the last boom to get a result in your favour. Try 15 years.
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Shadow
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Guest
26 Aug 2015, 02:22 PM
Yes you have convenient picked a starting point after the last boom to get a result in your favour. Try 15 years.
It doesn't favour me in any way. 2003 just happens to be the earliest date we can go back to and still have a price/income ratio that is similar to the current ratio. I didn't cause 2003 be the date. It was chosen by movements in house prices and incomes. There is no other starting state that can be used to show that the house price to income ratio has been steady for the past 12 years.

I suppose if I said Australia has been an independent nation for 114 years you would accuse me of cherry picking 1901 as the start year in order to get a result in my favour. :re:
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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ThePauk
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Shadow
26 Aug 2015, 02:34 PM
It doesn't favour me in any way. 2003 just happens to be the earliest date we can go back to and still have a price/income ratio that is similar to the current ratio. I didn't cause 2003 be the date. It was chosen by movements in house prices and incomes. There is no other starting state that can be used to show that the house price to income ratio has been steady for the past 12 years.

I suppose if I said Australia has been an independent nation for 114 years you would accuse me of cherry picking 1901 as the start year in order to get a result in my favour. :re:
Come on, where is the single wage chart?
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Chris
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Shadow
26 Aug 2015, 01:59 PM
I already posted the chart...

Posted Image

Facts can't 'ignore' other facts. Your statement is meaningless. Australia's house price to income ratio has been fairly steady for over a decade. This is a fact. There are other facts in the world - for example, 2 is greater than 1, but these other facts don't negate the fact that Australia's house price to income ratio has been fairly steady for over a decade.
You're playing coy grey man. What we are arguing in real terms is the ability for FHB to enter the market and whether that is easier or harder today than it was in 2003 or any other period leading up till now. Ignoring that the demographic that is hardest hit 24-35 yr olds, and is hindered by the extreme transfer of wealth to baby boomers is just deceptive. Just because as an average they come out about the same isn't telling the whole story and you know it.

You're a fraud grey man

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Shadow
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Chris
26 Aug 2015, 03:16 PM
What we are arguing in real terms is the ability for FHB to enter the market and whether that is easier or harder today than it was in 2003
Where are we arguing that - can you post a link? My argument is that Australia's house price to income ratio today is roughly the same as in 2003. I didn't mention Gen-Y, or FHBs, or whatever specific demographic you'd like to switch the focus onto.
Edited by Shadow, 26 Aug 2015, 03:29 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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stubby
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Shadow
26 Aug 2015, 07:27 AM
Quote:
 
Are not capital gains a form of income?


No.
Marvellous and mysterious.

In what way are capital gains *not* income, in Shadow-world???

Certainly the ATO taxes such gains; according to them "It forms part of your income tax and is not considered a separate tax".

:lol :lol :lol
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Shadow
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stubby
26 Aug 2015, 03:51 PM
In what way are capital gains *not* income, in Shadow-world???
Capital gain generally isn't used as income with which to service the mortgage, because for most people, once the capital gain is realised, there is no longer any mortgage to service.

Banks don't accept capital gain as income when assessing loan serviceability. I assume you've never had a loan - you should know this stuff.

Quote:
 
Certainly the ATO taxes such gains
Capital growth is taxed very differently to income - for example there is a 50% CGT discount for investors, and no CGT is payable at all on PPORs.
Edited by Shadow, 26 Aug 2015, 04:01 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Chris
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Shadow
26 Aug 2015, 03:28 PM
Where are we arguing that - can you post a link? My argument is that Australia's house price to income ratio today is roughly the same as in 2003. I didn't mention Gen-Y, or FHBs, or whatever specific demographic you'd like to switch the focus onto.
So you are saying housing is not as affordable today for the 24-35 yr old bracket as it was in 2003. Or are you saying it is?

Who do you think bears on this site are saying housing is unaffordable for if not FHB? Did you conclude after years on this site that bears felt boomers and Gen X were finding it difficult to buy homes today, more so than in 2003.

Who do you think you're kidding with the charade?

You took a stance and provided data that was deliberately deceptive, you can't argue iyour way out of it either way.
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