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Why do we accept NG on all other investments except Property?
Topic Started: 24 Aug 2015, 01:02 PM (2,025 Views)
Car tart
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I am not a fan of NG. I believe that a good property investor makes money from his property.

But I would say that a substantial amount of businesses also NG and receive tax breaks for losses yet this is never argued.

At what point does property investment become a property business. This financial year my property investment will net 4 times what my company will net, in my budget. Yet the company employs about 30 full timers compared to nil for property investors.

I still see a successful future in abolishing the double dipping of depreciation on "unpurchased" assets.
You cant drive a house, BUT you can always sleep in a car!
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Chris
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Car tart
24 Aug 2015, 01:02 PM
I am not a fan of NG. I believe that a good property investor makes money from his property.

But I would say that a substantial amount of businesses also NG and receive tax breaks for losses yet this is never argued.

At what point does property investment become a property business. This financial year my property investment will net 4 times what my company will net, in my budget. Yet the company employs about 30 full timers compared to nil for property investors.

I still see a successful future in abolishing the double dipping of depreciation on "unpurchased" assets.
You answers your own question, the most basic is that it is s non productive subsidy that does nothing to contribute to our economy. FI has done immeasurably more in the last 3 years for new housing stock than NG would have done in the last 15.

That aside it also inflates an incredibly speculative market that is heavily indebted to IO loans, even if it's for only for the first few years of ownership they are the majority and exposing us all to economic ruin.

Just the tip of the iceberg but it's a fucking cancer, the UK has seen the light and I can only hope we do to before it kills is all economically.
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Rastus2
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Car tart
24 Aug 2015, 01:02 PM
I am not a fan of NG. I believe that a good property investor makes money from his property.

But I would say that a substantial amount of businesses also NG and receive tax breaks for losses yet this is never argued.

At what point does property investment become a property business. This financial year my property investment will net 4 times what my company will net, in my budget. Yet the company employs about 30 full timers compared to nil for property investors.

I still see a successful future in abolishing the double dipping of depreciation on "unpurchased" assets.
There are many flavours of people who oppose NG for Property.

For example, many of us believe NG should be allowed on something that is newly built, but only for a limited period.

Given the pressures on Gov. income and spending, there is a valid reason to direct tax incentives towards more productive directions than less productive ones.

The same 100 year old house being sold 20 times and used for -ve Gearing on and off for that 100 years does far less towards the economy than a new build IP.
Shadow - Defrauded his Bank ? 2015 I have 9 different loans and my bank had no idea which ones were personal and which were investment. They had half of them classed incorrectly. When this change came in they asked me to tell them if any personal loans were incorrectly classed as investment, which I did, and they switched them to personal for the lower rate. They also had a couple of investment loans incorrectly classed as personal. They didn't ask me about those. So they stay on the lower rate too. Worked out pretty well. :)
Shadow - 2008 Sydney Median House Price 1.25M by 2014-2015

Shadow : I think this boom has already begun in several cities. My prediction :
Peak of boom: 2014-2015. Sydney Median Price: $1,250,000 Bottom of bust: 2017-2018. Sydney Median Price: $1,100,000

Shadow's Original 2010 House Boom and Crash prediction http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/shady-orig-2010-chart.png.html?sort=3&o=0

Shadow's attempt to edit his 2010 chart in 2015 and replace it with one that does not show a crash in 2013 http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-06%20at%207.12.52%20pm_1.png.html
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Car tart
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Im sorry I don't think you know how the ASX works if you think its a long term strategy compared to RE.

This country needs the following for a fix.
15% GST on everything with appropriate compensation for those below the average wage.
Company tax rates to equal the highest marginal tax rate.
equal stamp duty on property and share market purchases.
15% Death duties on assets worth over 2X the average house price in your state capital.
No payroll tax
No deduction for depreciation unless item is purchased separate to any business or property purchase.

You cant drive a house, BUT you can always sleep in a car!
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stinkbug
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Rastus2
24 Aug 2015, 01:40 PM


The same 100 year old house being sold 20 times and used for -ve Gearing on and off for that 100 years does far less towards the economy than a new build IP.
True, but I guess we need to consider the 20 lots of stamp duty that are received as well.
---------------------------------------------------------------

While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

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Bardon
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Car tart
24 Aug 2015, 02:04 PM
Im sorry I don't think you know how the ASX works if you think its a long term strategy compared to RE.

This country needs the following for a fix.
15% GST on everything with appropriate compensation for those below the average wage.
Company tax rates to equal the highest marginal tax rate.
equal stamp duty on property and share market purchases.
15% Death duties on assets worth over 2X the average house price in your state capital.
No payroll tax
No deduction for depreciation unless item is purchased separate to any business or property purchase.

Jeez, are you sure you don't want to hike the income tax rates while you are at it?
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ThePauk
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Car tart
24 Aug 2015, 01:02 PM
I am not a fan of NG. I believe that a good property investor makes money from his property.

But I would say that a substantial amount of businesses also NG and receive tax breaks for losses yet this is never argued.

At what point does property investment become a property business. This financial year my property investment will net 4 times what my company will net, in my budget. Yet the company employs about 30 full timers compared to nil for property investors.

I still see a successful future in abolishing the double dipping of depreciation on "unpurchased" assets.
I can not use my business losses against my personal income, so why is property NG different?
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Car tart
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I pay more tax than you would dream of.

I believe a good top marginal tax rate and company rate would be 30-35%.

But when I pass on, why should my kids get the money tax free, especially when 3 of the 4 are self made property millionaires by the age of 27 and 28 and goodness knows worth what if I live to be 85 (another 30 years)


ThePauk
24 Aug 2015, 02:22 PM
I can not use my business losses against my personal income, so why is property NG different?
yes you can!
https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Income-and-deductions-for-business/Claiming-tax-losses/Offsetting-current-year-losses-against-other-income/
Edited by Car tart, 24 Aug 2015, 02:28 PM.
You cant drive a house, BUT you can always sleep in a car!
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Bardon
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Car tart
24 Aug 2015, 02:25 PM
I pay more tax than you would dream of.

I believe a good top marginal tax rate and company rate would be 30-35%.

But when I pass on, why should my kids get the money tax free, especially when 3 of the 4 are self made property millionaires by the age of 27 and 28 and goodness knows worth what if I live to be 85 (another 30 years)

At least you are proposing lower marginal rates, I was getting worried there for a moment.

Anyhow income tax is a relatively modern scourge and I would like to see the back of it, all of it. The only thing I would consider is a relatively moderate sales tax but that's about it for me.

The main reason not to have inheritance tax is the same as the reason not to have most taxes which is that the state just don't know how to invest it properly.
Edited by Bardon, 24 Aug 2015, 02:43 PM.
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Rastus2
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stinkbug
24 Aug 2015, 02:06 PM
True, but I guess we need to consider the 20 lots of stamp duty that are received as well.
Why do we need to do that ?

Stamp duty happens on a sale, regardless if it's IP, PPOR, New Build, allowed to -ve gear or not allowed to -ve gear.

I see what you mean, but disagree. The new build which is allowed to have -ve gearing for a period will, after 100 years, IMHO, be just as likely to have been sold the same number of times as the 100 year old house I mentioned. If there is any evidence to say that is not the case, then lets consider it.
Edited by Rastus2, 24 Aug 2015, 03:20 PM.
Shadow - Defrauded his Bank ? 2015 I have 9 different loans and my bank had no idea which ones were personal and which were investment. They had half of them classed incorrectly. When this change came in they asked me to tell them if any personal loans were incorrectly classed as investment, which I did, and they switched them to personal for the lower rate. They also had a couple of investment loans incorrectly classed as personal. They didn't ask me about those. So they stay on the lower rate too. Worked out pretty well. :)
Shadow - 2008 Sydney Median House Price 1.25M by 2014-2015

Shadow : I think this boom has already begun in several cities. My prediction :
Peak of boom: 2014-2015. Sydney Median Price: $1,250,000 Bottom of bust: 2017-2018. Sydney Median Price: $1,100,000

Shadow's Original 2010 House Boom and Crash prediction http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/shady-orig-2010-chart.png.html?sort=3&o=0

Shadow's attempt to edit his 2010 chart in 2015 and replace it with one that does not show a crash in 2013 http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-06%20at%207.12.52%20pm_1.png.html
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