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About time the PPOR was included into the pension asset test
Topic Started: 18 Aug 2015, 11:38 AM (6,407 Views)
herbie
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ThePauk
24 Aug 2015, 02:09 PM
If you do not believe in the ageing of our nations, and others, so be it. You would be in a very select few in denial and that may suit you I suppose.
Try to stop being annoying and telling me what I do or don't believe in and/or are in 'denial' over and what might suit me.

While you probably think it makes you appear clever and/or wise, it just reminds me how truly stupid you are.
ThePauk
24 Aug 2015, 02:09 PM
To me, the most important issue that any young bear today should understand is the unprecedented ageing of the nations.
Why? (With that being a rhetorical question, so no need to answer.)

Given that it just tells me that you are continuing to make assumptions about what might be based on your assumptions about what might happen.

With all relatively recent history having proved that it's extremely unwise to make assumptions. (Especially those of a bearish leaning.)

Given that the central banks of the world and powers that be will do all they can to promote growth.

With that including growth in housing prices of course.

Edited by herbie, 24 Aug 2015, 03:46 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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ThePauk
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Zaph
Inc the PPOR completely and the savings are $14b per year....mmmm

"The Centre For Independent Studies argues it's unfair that rich and poor are being treated the same.

It claims its controversial proposal will leave an overwhelming majority of pensioners better off.

Under its proposition, the family home will be included in the assets test for age pension eligibility, and seniors encouraged to unlock the value of their property and use it to support themselves in retirement.

The reverse mortgage system would generate $14 billion in yearly savings, with almost half of those on the full pension moving onto the part-rate, while many others would no longer get support.

However, the centre says nearly all pensioners will benefit as their incomes rise by an average of $5900 a year under its proposal.

Only a small percentage of people will see diminished incomes of just $864."
- See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/04/27/govt-urged-to-use-home-in-pension-asset-test.html#sthash.H3E0BYeR.dpuf
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peter fraser
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ThePauk
24 Aug 2015, 05:26 PM
Zaph
Inc the PPOR completely and the savings are $14b per year....mmmm

"The Centre For Independent Studies argues it's unfair that rich and poor are being treated the same.

It claims its controversial proposal will leave an overwhelming majority of pensioners better off.

Under its proposition, the family home will be included in the assets test for age pension eligibility, and seniors encouraged to unlock the value of their property and use it to support themselves in retirement.

The reverse mortgage system would generate $14 billion in yearly savings, with almost half of those on the full pension moving onto the part-rate, while many others would no longer get support.

However, the centre says nearly all pensioners will benefit as their incomes rise by an average of $5900 a year under its proposal.

Only a small percentage of people will see diminished incomes of just $864."
- See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/04/27/govt-urged-to-use-home-in-pension-asset-test.html#sthash.H3E0BYeR.dpuf
Paul, the "Committee for Sustainable Retirement Incomes" and "The Centre For Independent Studies" are just bullshit organisations set up by people who are lobbyists, they have nothing to do with government, they are NOT elected by anyone but themselves and the people or organisations that sponsor them.

Save $14B per annum - you mean rob $14B per annum from the beneficiaries of the older generations as each one comes through. Instead of being able to leave something for their children, the money goes to the government to be spent on what?

Mate you're not fighting for a just cause, you are being mislead by people who want your assets via a quasi communist society. They have every right to hold their views, but they are just mistaken dogooders out to build their own little empire, which you and I will have to pay for.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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ThePauk
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peter fraser
24 Aug 2015, 06:06 PM
Paul, the "Committee for Sustainable Retirement Incomes" and "The Centre For Independent Studies" are just bullshit organisations set up by people who are lobbyists, they have nothing to do with government, they are NOT elected by anyone but themselves and the people or organisations that sponsor them.

Save $14B per annum - you mean rob $14B per annum from the beneficiaries of the older generations as each one comes through. Instead of being able to leave something for their children, the money goes to the government to be spent on what?

Mate you're not fighting for a just cause, you are being mislead by people who want your assets via a quasi communist society. They have every right to hold their views, but they are just mistaken dogooders out to build their own little empire, which you and I will have to pay for.
Lobbyists and bullshit organisations? WTF?
You are so full of crap at times Peter, I am sure you believe your own bullshit. These people runs rings around your or my knowledge...


http://csri.org.au/about/people/

Emeritus Professor Robert Officer AM

Professor Emeritus of the University of Melbourne, Professor Officer was at the University of Melbourne’s Melbourne Business School as a Professor of Finance from 1986 to 2002. Previously, he was Professor with the Department of Accounting and Finance at Monash University. He is an honorary Professor of the University of Queensland. He is a past President of the Accounting Association of Australia and New Zealand and for eight years was Editor of Accounting and Finance and has held positions at the Universities of Chicago, Queensland, Rochester (USA), Stanford Business School and The Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.

Dr Michael Keating AC
Dr. Keating was Head of the Australian Public Service and was the Cabinet Secretary and Head of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (1991 to 1996)

Ms Elana Rubin
Elena RubinElana Rubin is the former Chair of AustralianSuper, one of the largest and leading industry superannuation funds in Australia.
She is currently a Director of Mirvac Group, MLC Life & Administration Boards, Touchcorp and on the Advisory Board of Qualitas. Elana is also Director of SecondBite, a not-for-profit organisation providing excess fresh food to homeless and other agencies.

Professor Andrew Podger AO

Andrew PodgerAndrew Podger was a long-term public servant before joining academia. Amongst his senior appointments were:
– Public Service Commissioner 2002-2004;
– Secretary of the Australian Department of Health and Aged Care (and related designations) 1996-2002;
– Secretary of the Australian Department of Housing and Regional Development 1994-1996; and
– Secretary of the Australian Department of Administrative Services (and related designations) 1993-94.

Dr Vince FitzGerald
Dr Vince FitzGeraldDr Vince FitzGerald is a director of ACIL Allen Consulting. He was a founding director of precursor firm Allen Consulting from 1989, and its chairman from 2001 to 2010. He has worked on saving, superannuation, retirement, taxation and budgetary issues; reform of the Federal system; reform of education and training and health policies; organizational and governance reviews in the public sector; industry studies and project evaluations; payments systems reform and regulation; and competition policy, economics and regulation.

Ms Patricia Pascuzzo

As a senior executive for strategy at the Australian Stock Exchange she successfully navigated commercial and regulatory issues following demutualization. Patricia was instrumental in securing regulatory approval for the merger of CBA and Colonial First State as Executive Manager at the Commonwealth Bank of Australia. She has also held senior posts in the Australian Treasury leading policy development in financial markets and social system, and representational roles at the OECD and IMF. Patricia was a co-author of the Financial System Inquiry Report 1997.
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peter fraser
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ThePauk
24 Aug 2015, 06:31 PM
Lobbyists and bullshit organisations? WTF?
You are so full of crap at times Peter, I am sure you believe your own bullshit. These people runs rings around your or my knowledge...


I didn't say the people involved were unqualified or stupid, but I am saying that they have their own agenda, which may not be in everyone's best interest. There are thousands of people out there who are well qualified dogooders who will cause much more harm than they will ever do go good, and plenty of suckers who lap it up.

Well at least they have proven that there are suckers out there who will listen to their every word.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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herbie
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ThePauk
24 Aug 2015, 05:26 PM
CIS: " nearly all pensioners will benefit as their incomes rise by an average of $5900 a year under its proposal ... "

As in like when the homeowners amongst them are compelled to reverse mortgage their homes to fund the retirements of those who aren't - Oh look everyone, free money from Heaven for us all - Yeah sure right.

Tell the fundamentally dishonest free loading bludging sponging fucks to Eff off - Is my most considered thought.
Edited by herbie, 24 Aug 2015, 06:52 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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zaph
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ThePauk
24 Aug 2015, 05:26 PM
Zaph
Inc the PPOR completely and the savings are $14b per year....mmmm

"The Centre For Independent Studies argues it's unfair that rich and poor are being treated the same.

It claims its controversial proposal will leave an overwhelming majority of pensioners better off.

Under its proposition, the family home will be included in the assets test for age pension eligibility, and seniors encouraged to unlock the value of their property and use it to support themselves in retirement.

The reverse mortgage system would generate $14 billion in yearly savings, with almost half of those on the full pension moving onto the part-rate, while many others would no longer get support.

However, the centre says nearly all pensioners will benefit as their incomes rise by an average of $5900 a year under its proposal.

Only a small percentage of people will see diminished incomes of just $864."
- See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/04/27/govt-urged-to-use-home-in-pension-asset-test.html#sthash.H3E0BYeR.dpuf
So what?

Dodgy figures.
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ThePauk
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Diamond Member
"Simon Cowan, CIS research fellow and Target30 director

'The [pension] means test is unfair to people who don't own their own home, and those people are the poorest people in society. The pension means test currently excludes the value of the family home, other than a small amount that is incorporated in different means tests. But the family home is where pensioners' wealth is.

'What it really means is that there are people on the same rate of pension with very different net worth. Full-rate home owners have nine times the net worth of non-home owners. That is to say, nearly $500,000 in net worth compared with less than $50,000 for those who don't own their home. That is a very significant difference in the ability of those two groups to support themselves in retirement, but they receive the same pension payment.

'The advantages of home ownership have led to a massive overinvestment in housing assets, particularly amongst retirees. More and more people are using superannuation balances to increase their investment in housing ... By excluding the family home from the assets test, that test has no correlation to people's net worth.

'There's a significant advantage for pensioners in downsizing their homes, moving to more age-appropriate housing and releasing that income to support themselves in retirement. The problem is the entire system is rigged to ensure that that doesn't happen.

'You've got a pension age means test that excludes the family home, but if you sell the family home and get cash for that home, it then goes into the means test. You've got a system of stamp duty and land release restrictive development applications that are massively increasing house costs, which mean that even if you wanted to downsize from your three-bedroom home to a two-bedroom apartment, you're not actually going to receive a significant advantage from doing that.

'I'm a big fan of reducing some of the government barriers to people moving out of their home, moving to more appropriate housing, selling up and getting some income from that.'"

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bigideas/pensions-super-and-savings-how-to-afford-old-age-in-australia/6646472
Edited by ThePauk, 25 Aug 2015, 01:42 PM.
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Foxy
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Zero is coming...

And why would you include in the pension test an asset that has no yield??

Peter
http://www.afr.com/content/dam/images/g/n/2/1/u/8/image.imgtype.afrArticleInline.620x0.png/1456285515560.png
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ThePauk
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foxbat
25 Aug 2015, 02:10 PM
And why would you include in the pension test an asset that has no yield??

Peter
For the same reason you would include gold holdings. It is an asset.
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