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About time the PPOR was included into the pension asset test
Topic Started: 18 Aug 2015, 11:38 AM (6,411 Views)
zaph
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ThePauk
23 Aug 2015, 11:21 AM
Zaph
"About half of the aged pension pool goes to people who own a home worth more than $500,000."
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/rich-pensioners-may-be-too-much-at-home-20150219-13jdan.html#ixzz3jao9DmUY

"And the family home — the principal asset most Australians use to save over the course of their lives — could also be included in the means test. This would encourage the elderly to either downsize their residences or take out reverse mortgages to support themselves."
http://www.cis.org.au/target30/target30-papers/article/5138-getting-millionaires-off-the-old-age-pension

"In fact, over a quarter of a million Australian households with a net worth of more than $3 million are receiving welfare payments to the tune of $800 million per year."
"So far it has targeted unemployment benefits, education, a GP co-payment and family tax benefits as sources of revenue and savings to cover the debt. A raft of legislation changes, which include Age Pension indexation and eligibility age are waiting to be passed – such changes will hurt those on a meagre limited income, who can least afford to lose even a few dollars each week. Yet according to the NATSEM findings, around $500 million per year is being handed out to multi-millionaire retirees (with over $3 million in assets). A further $1.4 billion per year in benefits is being provided to those with a net worth of $2 million. These groups would seem ripe for the picking in order to refill the steadily emptying government coffers."
http://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/news/13411/20150218/millionaire-pension-payments

"Anyone who fails this test is by definition well off. But the well off aren’t left out. About half of them get the seniors supplement and Commonwealth health card, which entitles them to cheaper prescriptions. There’s no assets test, millionaires can get it. There is an income test, but it comes with a hole. Singles with more than $50,000 and couples with more than $80,000 in taxable income can’t get the card. But income from superannuation isn’t taxable, so it isn’t counted. It is possible to receive $200,000 a year from super (plus $50,000 in other income) and still get the card. Almost certainly an unintended consequence, it makes a joke of the tight rules that apply to younger Australians who actually need help.
The number crunching firm Macroeconomics reckons the government could save $900 million a year if it indexed the pension in the same way as other benefits. The total would rise by an extra $900 million each year, and not a single pensioner would be able to buy any less.
Including expensive family homes in the pension assets test (worth more than $1 million) would save the budget $1.1 billion a year.
Abolishing the seniors supplement would save $2 billion a year if the associated special carbon tax compensation went at the same time."
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/why-our-pension-scheme-is-too-generous-20140414-zqui8.html#ixzz3japIiT00


TLDR. You really need to look at whether policy has a chance of being passed.
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herbie
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ThePauk
23 Aug 2015, 09:40 AM
No change of argument at all.
Increased longevity means more older voters and the article explains why that will benefit Labor.

Now, what argument were you making, some shit about the size of the cohorts I believe?
Your 'argument' used to be that when the BABY BOOMERS retired en masse, there'd be cheap houses for all as the BABY BOOMBERS sold off their homes to downsize and their debt ridden IPs to support their retirement - As I recall. With the BABY BOOMBERS being such a HUGE demographic.

Whilst all the time calling yourself Demografix and portraying yourself to know everything there was to know or could be to know about such matters and continually and never endingly maintaining that you were undoubtedly correct in all such things and that NO other possible outcome could ever be countenanced by any sane person.

Which basic "I'm the Great and INFALLIBLE Demografix/ThePauk so I'M INFALLIBLE" crap about yourself, you still quite obviously seem to believe.

As statements like "GOT IT" very obviously attest to.

Though you screwed up totally didn't you!?!


Face it ThePauk, you're a screw-up; A total and absolute screw-up.


Though an irrepressibly arrogant one pretty obviously.

And an irrepressibly noisy one pretty unfortunately.

Who in the absence of ever being able to be right about anything has now become 'a politician' it would seem - Which I personally see as a most obvious 'next' step for you as a total and absolute screw-up to take ... LOL

Edited by herbie, 23 Aug 2015, 06:04 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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ThePauk
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zaph
23 Aug 2015, 05:44 PM
TLDR. You really need to look at whether policy has a chance of being passed.
Zaph, you asked and I answered. If you do not have time to read the response and associated articles, why ask?

As for the politics of getting the PPOR inc into the asset test, that is a separate issue and I tend to agree with you that it will be a very difficult policy to move through.
Although difficult, I feel it is inevitable especially when I see the way that the change in the taper rate was 'sold' to the public. I think it will be along the same lines as 'Why should we be paying welfare to multi-millionaires.... etc"
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ThePauk
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Herbie?
You have not taken up Yoga I see....

"Your 'argument' used to be that when the BABY BOOMERS retired en masse, there'd be cheap houses for all as the BABY BOOMBERS sold of their homes to downsize and their debt ridden IPs to support their retirement - As I recall. With the BABY BOOMBERS being such a HUGE demographic.

No, I suggested that NG would no longer be of benefit to a retriree and that people would age in place. In fact I have also outlined why downsizing will not happen when the PPOR is excluded from the asset test.

Whilst all the time calling yourself Demografix and portraying yourself to know everything there was to know or could be to know about such matters and continually and never endingly maintaining that you were undoubtedly correct in all such things and that NO other possible outcome could ever be countenanced by any sane person.

Lost me Herbs.... I have never claimed to not listen to others at all

Which basic "I'm the Great and INFALLIBLE Demografix/ThePauk so I'M INFALLIBLE" crap about yourself, you still quite obviously seem to believe.

As statements like "GOT IT" very obviously attest to.

Though you screwed up totally didn't you!?!

How so? I have a very successful app business, no debt, had Microsoft invest into my company and feel quite happy with my lot in life.

Face it ThePauk, you're a screw-up; A total and absolute screw-up.

Though an irrepressibly arrogant one pretty obviously.

And an irrepressibly noisy one pretty unfortunately.
Who in the absence of ever being able to be right about anything has now become 'a politician' it would seem - Which I personally see as a most obvious 'next' step for you as a total and absolute screw-up to take ... LOL

Never right about anything? Is that what you see as the prerequisite for a politician?

It is you who raised the issue about the size of the cohorts which had absolutely nothing to do with the ageing population and the nature of the article I linked. But rant on with tangents, If that is what keeps you happy.
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peter fraser
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ThePauk
23 Aug 2015, 11:21 AM
Zaph
"About half of the aged pension pool goes to people who own a home worth more than $500,000."
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/rich-pensioners-may-be-too-much-at-home-20150219-13jdan.html#ixzz3jao9DmUY

Absolutely no one cares about that. But as a conciliatory gesture I will be petitioning my local representative to make the limit $50 Million for the PPOR and $10 Million for other assets indexed at 10% growth annually.

Are we done.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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herbie
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ThePauk
23 Aug 2015, 06:08 PM
Herbie?

Blah blah ...
What "keeps me happy" is knowing that while on the internet one unquestionably DOES have to put up with 'shit from stupid' (touting himself as Demografix or whatever), one unquestionably DOESN'T have to roll over and say "Oh teach me more of your wisdom Oh wise master!" - Or to quote 'the wise master' : "Doh!" ... LOL

You really are a stupid stupid stupid man ThePauk.

And as has been previously established, dishonest to boot.

So yep, I can see why you are so attracted to politics.

A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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ThePauk
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goneaway
23 Aug 2015, 07:20 PM
What "keeps me happy" is knowing that while on the internet one unquestionably DOES have to put up with 'shit from stupid' (touting himself as Demografix or whatever), one unquestionably DOESN'T have to roll over and say "Oh teach me more of your wisdom Oh wise master!" - Or to quote 'the wise master' : "Doh!" ... LOL

You really are a stupid stupid stupid man ThePauk.

And as has been previously established, dishonest to boot.

So yep, I can see why you are so attracted to politics.
Herbs
Where did you get the idea I was running for any office?
Ok, so I have established that your comments about cohort sizes were totally irrelevant, that you do not practice Yoga and that you are offended by ideas that do not suit your view of the world. Got it.
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ThePauk
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Whew, I am ok with people attacking me personally, but from now on, I will not respond to any personal attacks.
I have been drawn in the past and thrown my share of shit back, but now, on reflection, it is a complete waste of time.

So, back at the pig pen, the PPOR will eventually be included into the asset test for welfare, as it should IMO.
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herbie
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ThePauk
23 Aug 2015, 08:08 PM
Whew, I am ok with people attacking me personally, but from now on, I will not respond to any personal attacks.
I have been drawn in the past and thrown my share of shit back, but now, on reflection, it is a complete waste of time.

So, back at the pig pen, the PPOR will eventually be included into the asset test for welfare, as it should IMO.
"Agequake" - In Oz - At this time - What a load of crap - Ever even maybe:

"... the liquidation of baby boomer assets to pay for their retirements, this is likely to halt economic growth in the future, and economic stagnation may be a more likely prospect. Housing prices will plummet ..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agequake

Yet you keep popping up and mentioning Agequake - In Oz - As if it just could be about to happen now.

You ARE a stupid stupid stupid man ThePauk. And/or a dishonest one (with the latter having been clearly established previously anyway).

And with those being statements of fact. Not personal attacks ...

Just statements of fact.

With you also having been told previously that any approximation to some "agequake" that may or may NOT occur in Oz way down the track just might result in the nation going back to the sorts of dependency ratios we had in the 1970s (or whenever it was?) - But with it hardly being catastrophic anyway.

So yep, you're a tool. And a tool who can't be told.

Who keeps drivelling nonsense as a result.

With that being another fact. Not a personal attack.



A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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Bardon
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ThePauk
23 Aug 2015, 08:08 PM
Whew, I am ok with people attacking me personally, but from now on, I will not respond to any personal attacks.
I have been drawn in the past and thrown my share of shit back, but now, on reflection, it is a complete waste of time.

So, back at the pig pen, the PPOR will eventually be included into the asset test for welfare, as it should IMO.
Pauk, what about inheritance tax, whats your view on that?
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