Why do you take the bait? We have more chance of seeing God on the 5 o'clock train eating a banana than we have of including the PPOR in the assets test unless it's set at $5M or so and that will affect about 2 people in the nation.
This is just how Paul gets his boner, it will never actually happen.
Well, time will tell Mr F. I think it will be included.....and many others want, or suggest that it should be.
Pauk, serious question do you think that we should introduce inheritance tax in Aussie?
Bardon It is difficult, as the death tax in the past made it very difficult families on farms and small business owners. I would think that when the PPOR is included into the pension asset test that there will be no need for a death/estate tax.
"An inheritance or estate tax is a tax paid by a person who inherits money or property or a levy on the estate (money and property) of a person who has died.[1] International tax law distinguishes between an estate tax and an inheritance tax—an estate tax is assessed on the assets of the deceased, while an inheritance tax is assessed on the legacies received by the estate's beneficiaries." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance_tax
As you specifically asked about an 'inheritance tax' I will assume you mean earnings from an estate.
I am open to an inheritance tax under the international definition and I do have experience in this as my family does have a trust in perpetuity, where only the earnings are ever distributed. Prompted by members in this forum I looked closer into my family trust and found that there has been two CGT events in the past, given that in AU, Trusts can only have a defined length of time, so in effect a 'death tax' has been paid on the gain in the Trust twice in the past.
All up, I do not think AU will return to an estate or inheritance tax.
Well, time will tell Mr F. I think it will be included.....and many others want, or suggest that it should be.
I've asked before and you haven't answered - how many people with PPOR's well above the median collect the age pension? The data is probably not available. How big is this 'problem'? Is it big enough to warrant expensive changes to social security rules?
As PF and I have said the govt would need to set the limit so high that only 'rich' people were affected for it to get through the voting public. In Sydney that would mean a limit in the millions. It's not unusual for a pensioner to own a PPOR at least 1.5 times the median. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
I don't think it will be included.
Edit - you have some interesting policy ideas. But you never seem to think about the practicalities of getting your ideas passed. Firstly you need ideological agreeance in parties, then the ability to pass it through parliament and of course voter agreement.
I've asked before and you haven't answered - how many people with PPOR's well above the median collect the age pension? The data is probably not available. How big is this 'problem'? Is it big enough to warrant expensive changes to social security rules?
As PF and I have said the govt would need to set the limit so high that only 'rich' people were affected for it to get through the voting public. In Sydney that would mean a limit in the millions. It's not unusual for a pensioner to own a PPOR at least 1.5 times the median. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
I don't think it will be included.
Edit - you have some interesting policy ideas. But you never seem to think about the practicalities of getting your ideas passed. Firstly you need ideological agreeance in parties, then the ability to pass it through parliament and of course voter agreement.
"In fact, over a quarter of a million Australian households with a net worth of more than $3 million are receiving welfare payments to the tune of $800 million per year." "So far it has targeted unemployment benefits, education, a GP co-payment and family tax benefits as sources of revenue and savings to cover the debt. A raft of legislation changes, which include Age Pension indexation and eligibility age are waiting to be passed – such changes will hurt those on a meagre limited income, who can least afford to lose even a few dollars each week. Yet according to the NATSEM findings, around $500 million per year is being handed out to multi-millionaire retirees (with over $3 million in assets). A further $1.4 billion per year in benefits is being provided to those with a net worth of $2 million. These groups would seem ripe for the picking in order to refill the steadily emptying government coffers." http://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/news/13411/20150218/millionaire-pension-payments
"Anyone who fails this test is by definition well off. But the well off aren’t left out. About half of them get the seniors supplement and Commonwealth health card, which entitles them to cheaper prescriptions. There’s no assets test, millionaires can get it. There is an income test, but it comes with a hole. Singles with more than $50,000 and couples with more than $80,000 in taxable income can’t get the card. But income from superannuation isn’t taxable, so it isn’t counted. It is possible to receive $200,000 a year from super (plus $50,000 in other income) and still get the card. Almost certainly an unintended consequence, it makes a joke of the tight rules that apply to younger Australians who actually need help. The number crunching firm Macroeconomics reckons the government could save $900 million a year if it indexed the pension in the same way as other benefits. The total would rise by an extra $900 million each year, and not a single pensioner would be able to buy any less. Including expensive family homes in the pension assets test (worth more than $1 million) would save the budget $1.1 billion a year. Abolishing the seniors supplement would save $2 billion a year if the associated special carbon tax compensation went at the same time." Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/why-our-pension-scheme-is-too-generous-20140414-zqui8.html#ixzz3japIiT00
Pauk, serious question do you think that we should introduce inheritance tax in Aussie?
The complete hypocrisy of someone living on the proceeds of an inheritance trust but working to deny anyone else ever receiving any inheritance is completely lost on Paul. He simply can't put one and one together.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
The complete hypocrisy of someone living on the proceeds of an inheritance trust but working to deny anyone else ever receiving any inheritance is completely lost on Paul. He simply can't put one and one together.
I do not support an estate tax but am quite open and would agree with an inheritance tax (proceeds/earnings from the Trust)
I have replied, but all my posts are under moderation, so some do not appear and some do.
The complete hypocrisy of someone living on the proceeds of an inheritance trust but working to deny anyone else ever receiving any inheritance is completely lost on Paul. He simply can't put one and one together.
If he is like that then he is the opposite of me.
I expend considerable effort trying to keep other peoples hands out of my pocket.
I expend considerable effort trying to keep other peoples hands out of my pocket.
Then you would support looking after yourself and not taking welfare if you live in multi million dollar home. Paying a pension to these is taking money out of your pocket.
Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.
Forum Rules:
The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.
Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.
Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.
This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.
Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ
Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy