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Desperate FHBs with no deposit are taking out "parent assist" loans to get onto the property ladder; Lender BlueBay rolled out “parent assist” loans last year, allowing buyers to borrow 20% deposit from parents
Topic Started: 29 Jun 2015, 10:11 AM (5,302 Views)
stinkbug
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Shadow
30 Jun 2015, 12:58 PM


The common man would have considered himself lucky to even afford rent back then. Many ended up in the workhouse...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1369746/Dickens-darent-tell-truth-real-Oliver-Twist-workhouses.html
That was a very interesting article, and you can see the building on Google street view.

It's very sad how many people had to live then. Things like this remind that having a decent social welfare system is a good thing.
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While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

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Yes
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ThePauk
30 Jun 2015, 01:06 PM
Yes, the 20th century dipshit.

Now the claim is that from 1AD to 1900AD the majority rented, right?
absolutely, most countries were monarchies over that time, where the king owned all the land and the common folk paid a tithe to the King or local Lord to stay on the land, and could be kicked off or killed at any time at the whim of the land Lord, most common folk had no power and no land, and thats where the word LandLord comes come, back in the day they were literally the Lord of the Land, its not until the late 20th century home ownership became feasible for the common folk with the advent of Mortgages, Mort Gage, literally a pledge to the death
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peter fraser
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Yes
30 Jun 2015, 01:40 PM
absolutely, most countries were monarchies over that time, where the king owned all the land and the common folk paid a tithe to the King or local Lord to stay on the land, and could be kicked off or killed at any time at the whim of the land Lord, most common folk had no power and no land, and thats where the word LandLord comes come, back in the day they were literally the Lord of the Land, its not until the late 20th century home ownership became feasible for the common folk with the advent of Mortgages, Mort Gage, literally a pledge to the death
Yes except that it's the mortgage that "dies" upon the final payment, not the borrower.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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skamy
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SovietCensor
29 Jun 2015, 10:26 PM
Soviet Union?
You have no idea mate in the Soviet Union people who had well located home that money could not buy paid for it with their lives. That is what you really call an unaffordable price to pay to stay in your own home.
ThePauk
29 Jun 2015, 11:48 PM
Interesting question. I would think that for the majority of mans civilisation, debt was not required to attain shelter.
Certainly not the case in many nations now.
Of course debt was involved people worked together and if you were helped you owed help back. All that has happened today is that this borrowing has been monetised. Sure the Banks profit from that, but it is simply ridiculous to say that something is unaffordable because a loan is required.
ThePauk
30 Jun 2015, 12:11 AM
Mmmm, any link to prove that Peter?
Certainly Nth Korea now is free housing, so all depends on the political climate I would think.
Can you prove that the majority rented in the USA or the UK up until the 20th century?

Even here on Oz I know two people who paid cash, no debt for their housing. To them, debt was dirty thing and their houses were affordable to them.
So you are saying that house ownership should only be the preserve of those rich enough to buy outright. You are the most right wing extremist socialist I have ever met.
Terry
30 Jun 2015, 01:15 PM
Suburbia is a post-WWII phenomenon. No doubt about it.
And it has been a good thing for the majority of poor people whose lives improved markedly in the post war years.
Edited by skamy, 30 Jun 2015, 02:42 PM.
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993
The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
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ThePauk
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affordable
"If something is affordable, it's priced reasonably, and you have enough money to buy it."
http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/affordable

afford
": to be able to pay for (something)"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/afford


http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/afford
afford
"if you can afford something, you have enough money to be able to pay for it. This word usually follows ‘can’, ‘could’, or ‘be able to’"
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Veritas
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Pauk,
I’m with the bulls on this one insofar as having to taking on debt to buy something doesn’t, ipso facto, make it unaffordable.
However, just because you get granted a loan and buy a house doesn’t make it affordable either. Thousands of people “bought” houses that they could “afford” before the GFC only to find that they couldn’t afford them at all when it came to meeting the repayment obligations.


Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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ThePauk
30 Jun 2015, 04:37 PM
affordable
"If something is affordable, it's priced reasonably, and you have enough money to buy it."
So you're sticking with "houses have never been affordable for the majority of people anywhere in the world". Noted.
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Rastus2
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Shadow
30 Jun 2015, 08:06 AM
Peter provided data for the USA. The chart below is for the UK. You've read OliverTwist, right?

Posted Image
another version of that graph

Posted Image

it seems to show 2 large trends.

1 - ownership peaked 14 to 24 years ago.

2 - privately renting has been reduced with this ownership while social renting peaked 30 years ago and is now on par with private renting.
Edited by Rastus2, 30 Jun 2015, 05:35 PM.
Shadow - Defrauded his Bank ? 2015 I have 9 different loans and my bank had no idea which ones were personal and which were investment. They had half of them classed incorrectly. When this change came in they asked me to tell them if any personal loans were incorrectly classed as investment, which I did, and they switched them to personal for the lower rate. They also had a couple of investment loans incorrectly classed as personal. They didn't ask me about those. So they stay on the lower rate too. Worked out pretty well. :)
Shadow - 2008 Sydney Median House Price 1.25M by 2014-2015

Shadow : I think this boom has already begun in several cities. My prediction :
Peak of boom: 2014-2015. Sydney Median Price: $1,250,000 Bottom of bust: 2017-2018. Sydney Median Price: $1,100,000

Shadow's Original 2010 House Boom and Crash prediction http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/shady-orig-2010-chart.png.html?sort=3&o=0

Shadow's attempt to edit his 2010 chart in 2015 and replace it with one that does not show a crash in 2013 http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-06%20at%207.12.52%20pm_1.png.html
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ThePauk
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Veritas
30 Jun 2015, 04:50 PM
Pauk,
I’m with the bulls on this one insofar as having to taking on debt to buy something doesn’t, ipso facto, make it unaffordable.
However, just because you get granted a loan and buy a house doesn’t make it affordable either. Thousands of people “bought” houses that they could “afford” before the GFC only to find that they couldn’t afford them at all when it came to meeting the repayment obligations.


No, I get that, however my point is in the use and misuse of the various terminologies used around house prices in general.
Affordability is about as a % of disposable income, however it is often used in many other different ways.
When do homes become 'unaffordable'? When the % of income required to service the loan is too high, so in fact the 'loan' is unaffordable, not the house as many others may be able to 'afford' the same property if they have higher wages etc.

To Gina R, every house is 'affordable'.....

It seems lots of definitions really...

So here the definition is low cost housing.....?

"What is affordable housing?
http://www.housing.nsw.gov.au/Centre+For+Affordable+Housing/About+Affordable+Housing
Affordable housing is housing that is appropriate for the needs of a range of very low to moderate income households and priced so that these households are also able to meet other basic living costs such as food, clothing, transport, medical care and education. As a rule of thumb, housing is usually considered affordable if it costs less than 30 percent of gross household income 1.
In this context, affordable housing refers to housing that has been developed with some assistance from the NSW and/or Commonwealth Governments, including through planning incentives. It may include a range of housing types and sizes, including single or multi-bedroom units or houses, as well as studio apartments. It is only available in some locations and eligibility criteria apply.
Although affordable housing is sometimes available for purchase, it is most commonly available for rent.
Affordable rental housing may be owned by private developers or investors, local governments, charitable organisations or community housing providers. It is usually managed by not for profit community housing providers, and sometimes by private organisations. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-even-is-affordable-housing-8982783.html

And when I look at content like this, I am left a little confused..
"Everyone has the right to safe, secure and affordable housing."
from http://housingstressed.org.au/get-the-facts/

A property being 'affordable' or not, is a direct result of banks policy, IR's etc, not the price of housing. If banks changed to 100 year loans, all housing would be 'affordable'.
So when we are talking about 'housing affordability' we should be using the term 'mortgage affordability' instead.
Edited by ThePauk, 30 Jun 2015, 05:47 PM.
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SovietCensor
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skamy
30 Jun 2015, 02:32 PM
You have no idea mate in the Soviet Union people who had well located home that money could not buy paid for it with their lives. That is what you really call an unaffordable price to pay to stay in your own home.
Oh .. so you live in Soviet Union? yes?
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