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Hostages taken at Lindt Cafe, Martin Place. Forced to hold Islamic flag against window.
Topic Started: 15 Dec 2014, 10:25 AM (28,389 Views)
newjez
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Can't wait till he's prime minister

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11378700/Boris-Johnson-Porn-obsessed-Isil-jihadis-are-literally-wers.html
Whenever you have an argument with someone, there comes a moment where you must ask yourself, whatever your political persuasion, 'am I the Nazi?'
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Ex BP Golly
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Lindt hostage Marcia Mikhail accuses police of bungling operation, and asks why SAS or CDT3 etc wasn't used.

Mikhael said, “I know there are a lot of officers there (who) probably risked their lives to be there and I thank them from the bottom of my heart. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not being ungrateful to them...but I just think that maybe the Army would’ve been better, more appropriate to be handling this situation......”

“It was a waiting game. They were waiting for him to kill someone or shoot something so they (could) come in. It would be reactive. There was nothing proactive about that operation, nothing,” she said.......

Mikhael has given her witness statement to police, evidence expected to be presented along with the others’ accounts to the NSW Coroner’s court.

But she claims police will not give her a copy of the statement she made.

“Oh yes, (I’m) very angry. Why is it that I have two legs that kind of don’t work right now? Why is it that there are two dead people besides the bad guy? I feel like I’m being treated as a criminal myself. Can’t get my police statement. Why am I the criminal here?”

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/entertainment/television/sydney-siege-survivor-marcia-mikhael-accuses-police-of-bungling-the-lindt-cafe-rescue-operation/story-fni0cc2c-1227212315699
Edited by Ex BP Golly, 9 Feb 2015, 01:40 PM.
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Ex BP Golly
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Media is starting to ask the right questions, even if it is Adam Walters !

https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/26264688/terrorism-and-damage-control/

Terrorism and damage control?
Adam Walters. Feb 11, 2015.

" Less than 24 hours after Deputy Commissioner Catherine Burn was accused by fellow deputy Nick Kaldas of bugging him in a "possibly illegal operation" she has been trotted-out again as the face of NSW counter-terrorism.

Ms Burn was briefing the media on the arrest of two terror suspects in Sydney’s west but the "business as usual strategy" from the police hierarchy defies the reality that is tearing the force apart.

After the bitterness exposed by the upper house inquiry into the bugging scandal, nobody could for a second pretend the management of the NSW Police Force was not seriously fractured, or completely dysfunctional.

Yet someone within the police force, perhaps at the most senior level, seems determined to build Catherine Burn's public profile on the back of counter-terrorism.

It's a brave move considering the intensity with which the NSW coroner will scrutinise the police force for its handling of the Martin Place siege.

Hostages are now posing their own questions about the effectiveness of the police operation, which ended with the deaths of two innocent people.

One survivor has demanded answers on why crack army commandos - based just half an hour from the Sydney CBD at Holsworthy -were not used as part of the emergency response.

After all the East Coast Tactical Assault Group been training for a domestic hostage siege situation since the 2nd RAR unit was unveiled by former Defence Minister Robert Hill 13 years - and billions of taxpayer dollars ago.

“The special forces Tactical Assault Group is an elite unit to deploy at short notice to respond to a terrorist incident, such as a hostage siege,” the Minister’s release assured us.

This week 7News revealed the very same commandos had been training at Martin Place, right alongside the Lindt Cafe just 18 months before the siege.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott backed NSW Premier Mike Baird in his support of Commissioner Andrew Scipione’s rejection of the army’s offer to help on December 14. We have since been left to ponder the absurdity of the Federal Government’s retrospective declaration of the siege as a "terror event" for the sake of compensating sandwich shop owners and other small businesses around Martin Place for lost trade during the crisis.

Yet on the day of the siege itself the NSW Police said to the army: “Thanks but no thanks – we will handle this.” Tony Abbott then told the National Security Council the siege was not a terrorist situation that required the army's intervention.

The sea of flowers left by thousands of mourners in Martin Place left no illusion about the public perception of the siege as a terrorist incident, yet Commissioner Scipione stood in the floral ocean two days later and said his force were “more experienced” than the commando unit – despite the latter’s repeated deployments to the theatres of Afghanistan and the Middle East.

Commissioner Scipione went on to assert: “We do this every day. In fact on the very day of the siege we were responding to four similar situations.”

Similar? The last hostage situation on a similar scale was the Spit Bridge siege 30 years earlier. What exactly did the Commissioner mean by “similar”? …that police put on their uniforms that day and put their keys in the ignition? Where did the similarities begin and end?

Hopefully these will be questions addressed by the Coroner – the authority to which Catherine Burn deferred when refusing to answer questions about the decision to have her lead the Martin Place operation rather than the leader of a highly-trained, elite commando unit.

Seasoned army commandos have told 7News the Tactical Assault Group would have acted with the same ruthless efficiency employed by French special forces when they shot dead the two terrorists responsible for the Charlie Hebdo atrocity - without the loss of civilian lives.
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Ex BP Golly
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Police to give evidence at coronal inquest this week.

Originally sought to give evidence secretly. Have changed minds.

Can't wait to see evidence about why they didn't call in the SAS.

Heard SAS and CT units were running scenarios in a mockup of the cafe in the morning, awaiting a decision.

I want to know involvement of Premier/ advice from police etc, that saw a cross fire entry situation from two doors with about 15 operatives.

Nasty!
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John F. Kennedy
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Yes terrific. The cops had seen too many Arnold Schwartznegger films. They fired 35 rounds when two would have done. Not perfect though. They even forgot to say I'll be back, or consider that a divorce.

Catherine Burn, eager for promotion, but with insufficient Schwartznegger films under her belt, wanted her under-trained fuzz to make a big statement for her. And they did.

Now for the cover up.

In the film, Catherine Burn will be played by Gene Hackman, obviously. Or by Donald Sutherland.
Edited by John F. Kennedy, 18 Apr 2016, 07:37 PM.
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Chris
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Ex BP Golly
18 Apr 2016, 05:51 PM
Police to give evidence at coronal inquest this week.

Originally sought to give evidence secretly. Have changed minds.

Can't wait to see evidence about why they didn't call in the SAS.

Heard SAS and CT units were running scenarios in a mockup of the cafe in the morning, awaiting a decision.

I want to know involvement of Premier/ advice from police etc, that saw a cross fire entry situation from two doors with about 15 operatives.

Nasty!
Maybe it was the public scrutiny, your damned if you do and your merely queried if you don't. The court of public opinion pretty much hampers any real chance of any police force in Australia achieving anything.

It is also imperative that local forces have the capability to respond, Martin place was a drawn out and unique event. A real terror attack that has been planned and executed with professionalism and determination will start and end very quickly and only when the killers have been killed themselves. 10's, and as we've seen 100's of people could be killed by the time a chopper ride from Holsworthy could be halfway there.

Again the notion of society dissecting decisions they know nothing about just throws up useless and detrimental directions of thought that could in turn create an even greater danger. I know if I'm getting shot at I want a copper 30 sec away to run and help me not get on a chopper and drop by 20 minutes later.

As for the cross fire I think that will hurt them but that aside they still need to be commended, heading into a 'you or me' life threatening situation and doing what most of us can't.
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Ex BP Golly
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It's going to be interesting to see what comes out. At the moment they reckon the secrecy is to stop disclosure of operational tactics that terrorists might use against police in future operations.

Anyone with a modicum of knowledge already knows the failure of tactics in Sydney.

What really needs to be explored is the decision making (or lack of) that occurred.

What role was played by the politicians in their command bunker in Redfern? Are they equipped to think beyond a sexy press conference in these matters?

When should police do entries rather than endure perimeter containment, until better equipped and trained forces are used?

Police were there after about 30 seconds..... and remained in charge the whole time.

I got one don't think that was appropriate.





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stinkbug
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John F. Kennedy
18 Apr 2016, 07:32 PM
Yes terrific. The cops had seen too many Arnold Schwartznegger films. They fired 35 rounds when two would have done. Not perfect though. They even forgot to say I'll be back, or consider that a divorce.

Catherine Burn, eager for promotion, but with insufficient Schwartznegger films under her belt, wanted her under-trained fuzz to make a big statement for her. And they did.

Now for the cover up.

In the film, Catherine Burn will be played by Gene Hackman, obviously. Or by Donald Sutherland.
Who's Catherine Bum?
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While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

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Veritas
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stinkbug
18 Apr 2016, 07:52 PM
Who's Catherine Bum?
Havent really been following this but basically it seems that the Australian police force fresh from having to do f*** all except fine motorists and enforce a multitude of nanny state laws, got a fright when they had to do some real policing and was responsible for every death in the cafe?
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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stinkbug
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Veritas
18 Apr 2016, 07:55 PM
Havent really been following this but basically it seems that the Australian police force fresh from having to do f*** all except fine motorists and enforce a multitude of nanny state laws, got a fright when they had to do some real policing and was responsible for every death in the cafe?
Sad, but possibly true.
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While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

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