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Hostages taken at Lindt Cafe, Martin Place. Forced to hold Islamic flag against window.
Topic Started: 15 Dec 2014, 10:25 AM (28,412 Views)
Dr Watson
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peter fraser
16 Dec 2014, 02:56 PM
I have never stated that.
If you disagree with unlimited immigration, you're taking an awfully long time to getting around to saying so.

My position is clear: the gates should be shut at 25 million.

What's your position, Peter?
Edited by Dr Watson, 16 Dec 2014, 03:03 PM.
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt — Bertrand Russell
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zaph
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Dr Watson
16 Dec 2014, 03:00 PM
If you disagree with unlimited immigration, you're taking an awfully long time to getting around to saying so.

My position is clear: the gates should be shut at 25 million.

What's your position, Peter?
You should respect a members right to not post, or not have an opinion on a particularly issue.
Edited by zaph, 16 Dec 2014, 03:05 PM.
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roberto
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Dr Watson
16 Dec 2014, 03:00 PM
peter fraser
16 Dec 2014, 02:56 PM
I have never stated that.
If you disagree with unlimited immigration, you're taking an awfully long time to getting around to saying so.

My position is clear: the gates should be shut at 25 million.

What's your position, Peter?
And if we get to exactly 25 million, and your wife falls pregnant, should the federal government abort the baby?

Your arbitrary upper limit is silly in other words. We must keep growing like always. You shut the doors and you invite a Japanese style stagnant economy. We must continue to grow and grow until we all starve to death like mice in a mouse plague. It's the tried and tested way, just ask any Easter Islander.
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Dr Watson
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roberto
16 Dec 2014, 03:34 PM
And if we get to exactly 25 million, and your wife falls pregnant, should the federal government abort the baby?
My position is that if the population is less than 25 million, keep the gates open. If the population exceeds 25 million, shut the gates. I think this is a clear enough position.

If there comes a day when we have faster public transport infrastructure and satellite cities that can support more people then I would reconsider it. But so long as this habit of everyone cramming in around Sydney and Melbourne persists, we'll soon need to shut the gates, in my view.
Edited by Dr Watson, 16 Dec 2014, 03:48 PM.
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt — Bertrand Russell
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The coverage of the whole affair, while tragic, is appalling. The only article that’s worth reading from end to end is Peter Hartchers ‘Overreaction from fear is a measure of a terrorists success’ and what an over reaction it has been. The highlight from me is the bold proclamation that today Australia has changed forever. Fucken bullshit. Media hype. Did the 1978 Hilton Bombings change Australia forever? No. Australia has a history of lunatics on the rampage such as the Hoddle St Massacre, Port Arthur massacres or Joseph Schwab murdering 5 people in the Kimberlys. We’ve also had a NSW State MP and Councilor murdered and we won’t forget AFP Commissioner Colin Winchester. Monis is a lunatic hiding behind Islam but Australia did not change today. I really feel for the families of the two innocents who died this morning my condolences to the families and my scorn to the media
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Blondie girl
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When terrifying events like this happen, it does knock ones sense of security in their community that anywhere, anyplace isn't safe really. Just going out for a meeting, or catch up with someone & minding your own bizness ..then get caught up in a nightmare when a situation is not in your control would be awful for anyone.

Unfortunately this will not be the last incident, because there's mentally
unstable individuals with ticking time bombs anywhere ..in any suburb....

If someone's resolve is to get weapons & bombs ..make bombs to kill. Learn the required chemistry to make bombs, it can be done.


Sad to hear 2 hostages got killed, wish the outcome was different.

I have a 17 yr old Nephew that wants to eventually join the Police if he gets in , I'm sure my brother won't feel totally ok with the specific dangers he faces, these guys have to be tough & objective..a very hard job that most wouldn't envy.

Newjerk? can you try harder than dig up another person's blog. My first promo was with Billabong and my name in English is modified with a T, am Perth born but also lived in Sydney to make my $$
It's Absolutely Fabulous if it includes brilliant locations, & high calibre tenants..what more does one want? Understand the power of the two "P"" or be financially challenged
Even better when there is family who are property mad and one is born in some entitlements.....Understand that beautiful women are the exhibitionists we crave attention, whilst hot blooded men are the voyeurs ... A stunning woman can command and takes pleasure in being noticed. Seems not too many understand what it means to hold and own props and get threatened by those who do.
Banks are considered to be law abiding and & rather boring places yeah not true . A bank balance sheet will show capital is dwarfed by their liabilities this means when a portions of loans is falling its problems for the bank.
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Bit of social media discussion on facebook.

https://m.facebook.com/pages/Ban-islam-in-australia/153477658027945
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lulldapull
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Here's a good one on this most absurd stage mismanaged drama:

The Sydney siege
16 December 2014

Without providing any justification, the Australian government yesterday seized on an isolated incident involving a deeply disturbed individual in the Sydney CBD to activate the entire “counter-terrorism” apparatus and impose a state of siege in the centre of the country’s largest city—with tragic consequences.

What would ordinarily have been dealt with as a serious, but relatively straightforward, police matter—an armed gunman taking hostages in a city café—was escalated into a major national crisis by the intervention of Prime Minister Tony Abbott, with the full support of the opposition Labor Party and the Greens, state governments and the entire media.

Abbott delivered not just one, but two, addresses to the nation, promising the government and police in the state of New South Wales (NSW) the full support of all federal agencies—police, military and intelligence. Hundreds of police, including heavily-armed paramilitary police from the Tactical Assault Team, poured into central Sydney. Buildings kilometres from the scene were locked down, transport was rerouted and police patrols were stepped up, including in Sydney suburbs, Canberra—the national capital—and other Australian cities.

No rational reason has been offered for this massive police operation. Police determined relatively quickly that the hostage-taker was Man Haron Monis, an Iranian refugee well-known to police. He had no connection to Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), Al Qaeda or any other Islamic extremist organisation. He was a troubled individual, with a history of erratic actions, on bail for alleged involvement in the murder of his ex-wife.

Likewise, no coherent explanation has been given for the decision to storm the café in the early hours of this morning. The NSW police commissioner initially declared that officers charged into the building in response to shots heard inside, then declined to repeat his statement. The outcome is that the hostage-taker is dead, along with two innocent people—the café manager and a mother of three—and four others are injured.

From the outset, Abbott’s intervention, far from calming the situation to enable a peaceful resolution, deliberately fuelled a climate of uncertainty and fear. Amid a police blackout of what was actually taking place, the media went into overdrive, seizing on a black flag with an Arabic inscription to endlessly speculate on “terrorist” connections. TV stations shut down normal programming to provide continuous coverage of the events unfolding at the Lindt café.

The only purpose of this hysteria is to depict Australia as being a nation under siege and inflate the bogus “war on terror.” Abbott seized on the incident to manufacture a wartime atmosphere that will be exploited to justify a further escalation of the Australian involvement in US military operations—in the Middle East in particular—and police-state measures at home. Throughout the past year, Canberra has been in the forefront of the US confrontation with Russia over Ukraine, the new war in Iraq and Syria, and the Obama administration’s “pivot to Asia” and military build-up against China.

In September, police mounted the largest-ever “anti-terrorist” operation, involving more than 800 police commandos and intelligence agents in pre-dawn raids in Sydney and Brisbane. Family homes were ransacked, women and children terrorised and 15 people dragged off for interrogation. Only one person was charged with a terrorist-related offence, on highly dubious grounds.

The Abbott government latched onto the lurid claims of a plot to behead Australian citizens to justify the dispatch of military forces to Iraq and push through a new raft of anti-democratic, counter-terrorism laws. US Secretary of State John Kerry quickly seized on the supposed plot as the pretext for the US war in the Middle East, falsely telling a congressional committee that ISIS supporters had planned an “extravaganza of brutality in Australia.”

The Australian government’s actions yesterday and today are in line with the international modus operandi utilised to justify criminal wars of aggression and the build-up of the domestic police-military apparatus. The pattern was set with the 9/11 attacks, which the Bush administration exploited to declare the “war on terror” and launch invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, along with US allies such as Australia.

In April last year, an entire American city, Boston, was placed under virtual martial law following the explosion of two bombs near the finish line of the Boston marathon. The population was ordered to remain indoors while heavily-armed police and National Guard troops, backed by armoured vehicles and helicopter gunships, occupied the streets and conducted warrantless house-to-house searches.

This October, the Canadian government responded to the killing of a soldier near the parliament building in Ottawa by locking down much of the downturn area, closing off streets and confining thousands of government workers, shoppers and tourists. Again, the actions of an isolated and disturbed individual were exploited to create a climate of fear to effect a rightward shift in foreign and domestic policy, including Canada’s involvement in US war in the Middle East.

The Abbott government is operating from the same playbook. Confronting a rapidly deepening economic crisis, it is seeking to project sharpening social tensions outward by functioning as the point man for the US war drive in Europe, the Middle East and Asia. At the same time, it mounted the Sydney siege as a dress rehearsal for the massive police operations that will in the future be directed against the working class.

Peter Symonds
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herbie
16 Dec 2014, 10:13 AM
Was he a nutter before he came here? (I don't know.)

But anyway, I find it objectionable that he did what he did.

And I also find it objectionable that we've got home grown nutters saying stuff like "This is also the result of ignorant do gooder fools who are only to happy to let any piece of filth into our country."
I find it offensive some cry lunatic and racist when somebody does not like what is happening to their country, or the type of people being let in here.

Let me ask herbie, did you grow up here ?

The other thing I find offensive is when you claim he is JUST a nutter.

Let me ask you this herbie.....

Did this so called random nutter just happen to be

An immigrant...

Muslim.....

Islamic....

And represent a terrorist group....

What an absolutely fckn insulting coincidence herbie.

Lucky I post as a guest........
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peter fraser
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Dr Watson
16 Dec 2014, 03:45 PM
My position is that if the population is less than 25 million, keep the gates open. If the population exceeds 25 million, shut the gates. I think this is a clear enough position.

If there comes a day when we have faster public transport infrastructure and satellite cities that can support more people then I would reconsider it. But so long as this habit of everyone cramming in around Sydney and Melbourne persists, we'll soon need to shut the gates, in my view.
You have zero hope of the population being limited to 25 million. We will have exceeded that figure before 2020 and to my knowledge there are no designs on curtailing immigration.

Doc if you want to start an immigration thread then do so but this thread was about a tragic event in our history and it would be disrespectful to turn it into anything else than a discussion on this event.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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