Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Reply
Perth sales surge; No of sales up 17% on the month and 7% y/y
Topic Started: 16 Oct 2014, 10:42 AM (13,333 Views)
Maz
Member Avatar

Kulganis
22 Oct 2014, 02:45 AM
Because there are TWICE as many homeless people per capita in Australia than there are in the US
Gut feel must tell you you've been misled. The United States had an estimated 3.5 million homeless in 2000, 1.2% of the population at the time. Australia has an estimated 100K homeless, 0.43% of the population. There are thrice as many homeless per capita in the USA than in Australia.

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/900344_AmericasHomelessII.pdf

http://www.urban.org/publications/900366.html
Posted Image
Edited by Maz, 22 Oct 2014, 08:27 AM.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
peter fraser
Member Avatar


Kulganis
22 Oct 2014, 02:45 AM
Which is why, when the fact that different measures were used, I went and found somewhere that used the same measures for each case.

Can you restate that? It doesn't make sense.


Because there are TWICE as many homeless people per capita in Australia than there are in the US.


Probably? That's not like you, you usually use data to back up your claims, though sometimes you don't use data that has anything to do with your claims, but at least you try.


Nice try, I used the same measurement for both cases, people actually sleeping on the street on any given night.


Another nice try, that is a year figure, as in, 1.6 - 2.8 million children experience homelessness at some point in a year, not 1.6 - 2.8 million children are sleeping on the streets every night.


I was trying to use an analogy, I suppose your emerald glasses are screwed on too tight though.


The error in logic is to assume that all or even most people aspire to own their own homes. Bring in more data, sure, but to simply argue that low home ownership rates = unaffordable homes is complete rubbish.


We in Australia don't even have the cheap homes in any areas, which is possibly why our rate of homelessness is higher.

For instance...

371 Santa Lucia Ter Nw, Atlanta, GA 30318

$18,000

3 Bed
1 Full Bath

Posted Image

LINK

It's less than 10km from downtown Atlanta, hardly boondock territory, where in Sydney can you buy a 3 bedroom house for $18,000?


Unless they have reasons not to buy other than affordability. It's only logical to you, because you are pushing all this information through your filter. That is, you aspire to owning homes, therefore, everyone aspires to own homes.
Interesting, but I have to ask some questions - why is the average listing price in Atlanta $459,370 and why is the average sale price $329,860.
Reference - from your link.

I know that average prices are not median prices, but why such a huge difference?
Have you checked the crime levels for the area - Trulia have some good data on that if you reference the suburb on their website.

There must be something else going on here, prices don't vary that much unless something else is happening.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Maz
Member Avatar

Quote:
 
http://www.homeless.org.au/statistics/

Australia Homeless Statistics

The 2001 Population Census data:

99,900 houseless people in Australia (105,304 in 1996)

United States Homeless Statistics

From the National Coalition for the Homeless: Poverty, Urban Institute and specifically the National Survey of Homeless Assistance Providers, draw their estimates from a study of service providers across the country at two different times of the year in 1996.

They found that, on a given night in October, 444,000 people (in 346,000 households) experienced homelessness - which translates to 6.3% of the population of people living in poverty. On a given night in February, 842,000 (in 637,000 households) experienced homelessness - which translates to almost 10% of the population of people living in poverty.

Converting these estimates into an annual projection, the numbers that emerge are 2.3 million people (based on the October estimate) and 3.5 million people (based on the February estimate).This translates to approximately 1% of the U.S. population experiencing homelessness each year, 38% (October) to 39% (February) of them being children (Urban Institute 2000).

It is also important to note that this study was based on a national survey of service providers. Since not all people experiencing homelessness utilize service providers, the actual numbers of people experiencing homelessness are likely higher than those found in the study, Thus, we are estimating on the high end of the study's numbers: 3.5 million people, 39% of which are children(Urban Institute 2000).
Edited by Maz, 22 Oct 2014, 08:38 AM.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Kulganis
Member Avatar


Maz
22 Oct 2014, 08:08 AM
Gut feel must tell you you've been misled. The United States had an estimated 3.5 million homeless in 2000, 1.2% of the population at the time. Australia has an estimated 100K homeless, 0.43% of the population. There are thrice as many homeless per capita in the USA than in Australia.
Again, the 3.5 million number is a yearly number, as in, they estimated the number of people who experienced homelessness at some stage in a year.

The measure I used was the number of people who are actually living on the street on any given night.

In the US, on any given night, there is up to 800,000 homeless people.

This is about 0.25% of their total population.

In Australia, on any given night, there is about 105,000 homeless people.

This is about 0.45% of our total population.

Every night, not at some stage in a year.

"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Maz
Member Avatar

Kulganis
22 Oct 2014, 08:52 AM
The measure I used was the number of people who are actually living on the street on any given night.
You've been misled. Of the approximately 100,000 Australian homeless only 6% are sleeping out, actually living on the streets.

http://www.homelessnessaustralia.org.au/index.php/about-homelessness/homeless-statistics

Posted Image

Improvised dwellings, tents or sleeping out 6%
Supported accommodation for the homeless 20%
Staying temporarily with other households 17%
Boarding houses 17%
Other temporary lodging 1%
“Severely” overcrowded dwellings 39%



Have you been to the States Kulganis? I rarely see a homeless person in Australia. When I visit the States, it's rampant, and quite "in your face".
Edited by Maz, 22 Oct 2014, 09:09 AM.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Kulganis
Member Avatar


peter fraser
22 Oct 2014, 08:28 AM
Interesting, but I have to ask some questions - why is the average listing price in Atlanta $459,370 and why is the average sale price $329,860.
Reference - from your link.

I know that average prices are not median prices, but why such a huge difference?
Have you checked the crime levels for the area - Trulia have some good data on that if you reference the suburb on their website.

There must be something else going on here, prices don't vary that much unless something else is happening.
Atlanta has a population of more than 9 million people.

There are actually a lot of mansions that are well and truly priced above $2 million. These would skew the averages up a lot.

Like this place...

LINK

5549 Long Island Dr Nw, Sandy Springs, GA 30327

$2,995,000

5 Bed
Baths 6 Full, 3 Half Bath

To be honest, fully worth the price, it is a really magnificent home. It even has its own lake.

Or this one...

LINK

439 Blackland Rd Nw, Atlanta, GA 30342

$14,200,000

6 Bed
Baths 7 Full, 4 Half Bath

Another truly stunning property.

This goes on all the way down to places like this...

LINK

421 New Jersey Ave Nw, Atlanta, GA 30314

$5,100

3 Bed
Baths 1 Full Bath

Looking through Trulia, it seems crime is fairly low.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
peter fraser
Member Avatar


Kulganis
22 Oct 2014, 09:24 AM
Atlanta has a population of more than 9 million people.
And all 9 million live just a few Klm to the CBD? I don't think so.

You are avoiding my questions. Here is the same property on Trulia
http://www.trulia.com/homes/Georgia/Atlanta/sold/277444-371-Santa-Lucia-Ter-NW-Atlanta-GA-30318

suburb average listing price is only $95,700

This house sold for $105,000 in June 2003

there are no photos of the house internals - why not?

I think that there is evidence to suggest that there is a reason for this low price although I don't know what that reason is. It would be apparent if inspected I'm sure.

Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Guest
Unregistered

Your post Peter, shows us how overpriced our property is. It also seems to put the myth to rest that prices cannot fall below replacement cost.

And somebody mentioned the population was 9 mil. Its not Detroit, its Atlanta, surely prices could be supported above the level shown in your example.How could they possibly get this low ? What is the median history there ?

Even with such a bearish stance, I cannot see how prices could be so low.

Any explanations here Peter, I have none, but I've never really looked at the place in any detail.


"REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Foxy
Member Avatar
Zero is coming...

Kulganis
22 Oct 2014, 01:41 AM
There is an active thread for that topic, in fact quite a few. If you want to continue that discussion, those threads are still available. But I suppose you're embarrassed to continue them due to the thrashing you have received in them.
point taken.
Peter
Kulganis
22 Oct 2014, 09:24 AM
Atlanta has a population of more than 9 million people.

There are actually a lot of mansions that are well and truly priced above $2 million. These would skew the averages up a lot.

Like this place...

LINK

5549 Long Island Dr Nw, Sandy Springs, GA 30327

$2,995,000

5 Bed
Baths 6 Full, 3 Half Bath

To be honest, fully worth the price, it is a really magnificent home. It even has its own lake.

Or this one...

LINK

439 Blackland Rd Nw, Atlanta, GA 30342

$14,200,000

6 Bed
Baths 7 Full, 4 Half Bath

Another truly stunning property.

This goes on all the way down to places like this...

LINK

421 New Jersey Ave Nw, Atlanta, GA 30314

$5,100

3 Bed
Baths 1 Full Bath

Looking through Trulia, it seems crime is fairly low.
Having been to the U.S. several times as mom comes from Canada, i played croquet at the Greenwich croquet and the Central Park croquet clubs. The richest people on earth inhabit those 2 areas.

In the U.S. there are places the super wealthily live, we spent a week in Greenwich C.T. playing croquet and just chillin like villains.

The line between rich and poor are very distinct in the U.S.

So houses at $10m and a short distance away to have very cheap houses is the norm.

After all the maids and servants have to live somewhere.

If you are super rich there really is only one place on earth to live. (Central Park New York)

http://www.greenwichcroquet.com

http://www.newyorkcroquetclub.com/About_NYCC.html

Peter


There is a war between the rich and poor and the rich are wining. Warren Buffet 2014.







Edited by Foxy, 22 Oct 2014, 10:30 AM.
http://www.afr.com/content/dam/images/g/n/2/1/u/8/image.imgtype.afrArticleInline.620x0.png/1456285515560.png
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Kulganis
Member Avatar


peter fraser
22 Oct 2014, 09:35 AM
And all 9 million live just a few Klm to the CBD? I don't think so.





Of course not. What a ridiculous statement.

Quote:
 
You are avoiding my questions. Here is the same property on Trulia
http://www.trulia.com/homes/Georgia/Atlanta/sold/277444-371-Santa-Lucia-Ter-NW-Atlanta-GA-30318

suburb average listing price is only $95,700

This house sold for $105,000 in June 2003

there are no photos of the house internals - why not?
I honestly have no idea, whatsoever. Perhaps you should ask the agent who took the photo?

Quote:
 
I think that there is evidence to suggest that there is a reason for this low price although I don't know what that reason is. It would be apparent if inspected I'm sure.
Yes, most likely, but at $18,000, you would have a serious budget for renovations if you were a homeowner moving from somewhere like sydney, with a lot of cash left over for almost anything you could need.

A lot of them seem to be Fannie Mae HomePath properties, so essentially foreclosed and being sold as fast as possible to reduce losses.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums. Reliable service with over 8 years of experience.
Learn More · Register Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Australian Property Forum · Next Topic »
Reply



Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.

Forum Rules: The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.

Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.

Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.

This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.

For more information go to Limitations on Exclusive Rights: Fair Use

Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ

Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy