It's Australia's Nanny State running riot as always:
- "we're different here" rules for cars - "we can't be trusted" rules for chemist-mediated drugs (though the chemists are trusted to sell formulations with no effective active ingredients--a.k.a. homeopathic "medicine"--at extortionate prices) - "we can't drive unless regulated" rules for taxis (vs. internet-mediated ride services)
and now
- "we can't be trusted to provide a bedroom to a paying stranger" in case the associated meal might be hot.
Maybe not so much any more. The BCC has a compliance team of several people ferreting these out on gumtree and other forms of advertising.
A share house is pretty safe if it has 5 (I think) or fewer bedrooms. Above that, if the people in the house are otherwise unrelated besides the address they live at, you are at risk of being deemed to be an illegal rooming house.
Im sure those several are hard at work but the chinese aren't stupid. They buy a 5 bedroom home and rent out 4 rooms with the garage to boot, provide internet, pay the power and perhaps meals in some cases. They can charge $150 to $200 a room, make several hundred dollars a week tax free. It's like I said, they stick close to the letter, nothing outlandish and probably take in mostly Chinese. If the BCC inspector turns up to asks questions they better bring an interpreter who can speak 15 Chinese dialects. And then expect to get lied to. Even aussie skirters of the laws will be protected by their tennants. "Excuse me, are you living in an illegal boarding house? If the answer is Yes we will close it down and you'll have 3 days to vacate the premises. "
A share house is people all contributing to the full rent but I believe landlords don't like that sort of behavior. If a LL has a 5 bed house they'd rather rent it to 2 people or a family of 4, save on wear and tear. Well fair enough but by being picky they have shot themselves in the foot by providing a market for rooms to rent.
As this economy gets worse I predict many average home owners will be putting up rooms to rent, married couples, elderly people, anyone struggling to make ends meet or repay a mortgage. Anyone who thinks this is not likely is deluded about human nature. It's already happening at the margins, I've seen the evidence first hand. If the landlords won't come to the party someone else will and take that profit off them. Agents wont help them, they will just make things worse. The RE agents are out for themselves and it's all about being in control of the rental property. Conditions upon conditions added to conditions, just like any other beaurocracy.
My sister and her partner paid down 3 houses in east brisbane back in the early eighties living in one and operating the other 2 as boarding houses. Do you know why they did it? Because the economy was bad and share houses don't leave a paper trail for the ato to follow. As true now as back then. Everyone talks about how everyone should pay their taxes but everyone diddles the system as much as they can.
Shadow was hopelessly wrong about the Gold Bull Market. What else is he wrong about?
Im sure those several are hard at work but the chinese aren't stupid. They buy a 5 bedroom home and rent out 4 rooms with the garage to boot, provide internet, pay the power and perhaps meals in some cases. They can charge $150 to $200 a room, make several hundred dollars a week tax free. It's like I said, they stick close to the letter, nothing outlandish and probably take in mostly Chinese. If the BCC inspector turns up to asks questions they better bring an interpreter who can speak 15 Chinese dialects. And then expect to get lied to. Even aussie skirters of the laws will be protected by their tennants. "Excuse me, are you living in an illegal boarding house? If the answer is Yes we will close it down and you'll have 3 days to vacate the premises. "
Oh rubbish. The BCC just issues an enforcement notice and show cause. Then you have 20 days to appeal the enforcement notice or alternatively regularize the arrangement and supply a stat dec or you are liable for up to a $180k fine plus fines per day. Nobody needs to go in and interview tenants. Onus of proof is on the owner. If you have multiple leases on a place which does not have planning approval as a multi-unit dwelling, you are stuffed.
Mostly it is after people illegally renting out their granny flats, but illegal rooming houses have been under the gun as well. Just have a look at the rental notices on real estate.com and compare the number of rooms to rent now vs. the number there were before and you'll see what I mean.
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A share house is people all contributing to the full rent but I believe landlords don't like that sort of behavior. If a LL has a 5 bed house they'd rather rent it to 2 people or a family of 4, save on wear and tear. Well fair enough but by being picky they have shot themselves in the foot by providing a market for rooms to rent.
Share houses are fine because there is a single lease with all the names on it. Whether or not LLs don't like it in general, I wouldn't say. I have no big issues. The downside is you typically have more people in the place. The upside is that the arrangement can be very stable if well managed, as people move in and out of the lease over time.
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As this economy gets worse I predict many average home owners will be putting up rooms to rent, married couples, elderly people, anyone struggling to make ends meet or repay a mortgage. Anyone who thinks this is not likely is deluded about human nature. It's already happening at the margins, I've seen the evidence first hand. If the landlords won't come to the party someone else will and take that profit off them. Agents wont help them, they will just make things worse. The RE agents are out for themselves and it's all about being in control of the rental property. Conditions upon conditions added to conditions, just like any other beaurocracy.
Yeah. Been happening since the bears were bad and will no doubt continue. The BCC does not seem to care much about homeowners who are renting out a room or two in the house in which they live (unless they are operating an under-the-radar B&B which most certainly are not). The ATO on the other hand....
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My sister and her partner paid down 3 houses in east brisbane back in the early eighties living in one and operating the other 2 as boarding houses. Do you know why they did it? Because the economy was bad and share houses don't leave a paper trail for the ato to follow. As true now as back then. Everyone talks about how everyone should pay their taxes but everyone diddles the system as much as they can.
I lived in an arrangement like that in the 1980s. I rented a 6-bedroom house and sublet the other 5 rooms. Paid cash to the landlord every fortnight and he knew exactly what was going on. There is absolutely no way that arrangement exists these days. Landlords demand to know the names of everyone residing on the premises and all names are on the lease. Way too risky otherwise.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
The BCC has a compliance team of several people ferreting these out on gumtree and other forms of advertising.
Well they're either not very good at their jobs or spend all their time working on tip offs rather than ferreting. I would imagine that the majority of illegal boarding houses or granny flats that get busted are from neighbours dobbing them in.
I live in a burb with a lot of Chinese (3 years now). There are around six streets that I regularly walk to get around. In those six streets there are two houses that have have been crammed with tenants for the whole time I've lived here. Judging by the cars out the front one has at least 7 tenants and the other 8. If some tenants don't have cars the numbers could be higher. They all look like students.
When looking to buy I probably inspected ~ 100 houses. 3 were obviously 'boarding houses' and had been for a number of years. The one that really stood out was a five bed house with 13 tenants!
What I don't understand is why these people live like it. They could easily rent a house with a few mates and it would be cheaper. There would be no language barriers as all the agents here have Chinese speaking staff. Perhaps this style of accommodation is just a stepping stone when they first arrive to study and have no idea about the area.
Well they're either not very good at their jobs or spend all their time working on tip offs rather than ferreting. I would imagine that the majority of illegal boarding houses or granny flats that get busted are from neighbours dobbing them in.
I live in a burb with a lot of Chinese (3 years now). There are around six streets that I regularly walk to get around. In those six streets there are two houses that have have been crammed with tenants for the whole time I've lived here. Judging by the cars out the front one has at least 7 tenants and the other 8. If some tenants don't have cars the numbers could be higher. They all look like students.
When looking to buy I probably inspected ~ 100 houses. 3 were obviously 'boarding houses' and had been for a number of years. The one that really stood out was a five bed house with 13 tenants!
What I don't understand is why these people live like it. They could easily rent a house with a few mates and it would be cheaper. There would be no language barriers as all the agents here have Chinese speaking staff. Perhaps this style of accommodation is just a stepping stone when they first arrive to study and have no idea about the area.
I think it depends on whether it is advertised or not. If it was never advertised, the council needs a complaint in order to act. If there was an advertisement, they have probable cause and can just issue the enforcement notice. A lawyer I have corresponded with was getting several cases a week on this.
Note also that the definition is based on number of households. If you have 17 people living in a house and they share food costs and electricity costs then it could count as one household.
What the council have been cracking down on is multiple households on a property that is not designated as a multi tenant unit.
The new proposed town plan has easier provision for rooming houses I am told, but the fire regulations are different so you can't just say a house is now a rooming house.
BTW some research shows me that in your own home you can take up to 3 boarders with no problems.
There are some terrible examples of exploitation of new arrivals.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
A lawyer I have corresponded with was getting several cases a week on this.
Note also that the definition is based on number of households. If you have 17 people living in a house and they share food costs and electricity costs then it could count as one household.
The new proposed town plan has easier provision for rooming houses I am told, but the fire regulations are different so you can't just say a house is now a rooming house.
BTW some research shows me that in your own home you can take up to 3 boarders with no problems.
There are some terrible examples of exploitation of new arrivals.
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I think it depends on whether it is advertised or not. If it was never advertised, the council needs a complaint in order to act. If there was an advertisement, they have probable cause and can just issue the enforcement notice.
It may be that the 'boarding houses' I described never advertise in Australia, at least not through channels that council may monitor, or be able to read.
I'd suggest that the council processes involve a little more than just seeing an ad on Gumtree and then issuing an enforcement notice.
eg - see ad. Determine if it is likely a boarding house. Investigate further - eg lots of ads in the past from the same poster, perhaps turn up or phone to enquire, drive by, question neighbours etc Determine that it is highly likely to be a boarding house and then issue enforcement notice.
If they didn't follow a process like this they would be issuing a ton of enforcement notices that fail. eg for a share house looking to replace one tenant, someone renting out one room in their house etc.
It doesn't alter the fact that I've seen places operate as 'illegal boarding houses' for many years and not be shut down. Perhaps they're lucky, the council are not as good at detection as you say or 'burden of proof' they use before enforcing is quite high.
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What the council have been cracking down on is multiple households on a property that is not designated as a multi tenant unit.
Well they're either not very good at their jobs or spend all their time working on tip offs rather than ferreting. I would imagine that the majority of illegal boarding houses or granny flats that get busted are from neighbours dobbing them in.
Too many cars parked all over the footpaths and unkempt yards annoy the neighbours, who then dob them in.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
I'd suggest that the council processes involve a little more than just seeing an ad on Gumtree and then issuing an enforcement notice.
eg - see ad. Determine if it is likely a boarding house. Investigate further - eg lots of ads in the past from the same poster, perhaps turn up or phone to enquire, drive by, question neighbours etc Determine that it is highly likely to be a boarding house and then issue enforcement notice.
If they didn't follow a process like this they would be issuing a ton of enforcement notices that fail. eg for a share house looking to replace one tenant, someone renting out one room in their house etc.
It doesn't alter the fact that I've seen places operate as 'illegal boarding houses' for many years and not be shut down. Perhaps they're lucky, the council are not as good at detection as you say or 'burden of proof' they use before enforcing is quite high.
I've heard that.
Make your own conclusions. I know of *one* lawyer who is currently representing over a dozen clients who have been issued with enforcement notices. The BCC is apparently working across town from one side to the other.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
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