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69% of Australian Retirees expect to leave a very significant inheritance to their children; HSBC Survey
Topic Started: 21 Sep 2014, 11:17 PM (11,730 Views)
goldbug
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Trojan
24 Sep 2014, 03:02 AM
Only skimmed through this thread ...
any gains are vapor and non existent till the property is sold
That's the way you property speculators operate in all areas of investment isn't it? Just skim a few dinner party conversations, skim a few RE industry stats on home appreciations, then go out and sign up for a million in debt.

But you're right, the gains are all on paper until the day you really need them. Good luck in the future, with your speculations.
Shadow was hopelessly wrong about the Gold Bull Market.
What else is he wrong about?
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peter fraser
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goldbug
24 Sep 2014, 07:42 AM
That's the way you property speculators operate in all areas of investment isn't it? Just skim a few dinner party conversations, skim a few RE industry stats on home appreciations, then go out and sign up for a million in debt.

But you're right, the gains are all on paper until the day you really need them. Good luck in the future, with your speculations.
That actually highlights one weakness in Pauls plan. If a homeowner is financially penalised because their house is deemed to have gone up in value, what happens if their home later sells for a much lower value, or the road planning authority decides to relocate a major road and values plunge, or an airport is proposed, or the area is flooded, or whatever - does the state then compensate that pensioner for everything they were not paid. What happens when granny is selling and moving to a nursing home and the house gets more than the expected value - does she have to pay some back to the state?

If all houses rose in value at the same rate then a homeowner has not really gained anything from owning that house relative to normal values. But it's far too simplistic to say that all houses rise in value - some fall in value. The lawyers of the future will love Pauls idea because it has the potential to cause much litigation.


Sober
24 Sep 2014, 07:30 AM
2) Pauk attributes this reluctance to leave inheritances *only* to the Boomers. None of his posts, or links, have provided any remotely lucid explanation for this. If there has indeed been a sea-change in attitudes towards retirement spending patterns and intended wealth transfers to offspring, why does Pauk think it is magically connected to a particular finite set of birth years? Why won't the sea-change continue with Gen X and Gen Y?
I will accept that there has been a gradual change in attitudes, but it didn't magically happen on 31/12/1945.

My parents had the traditional world holiday - they travelled the world for a year when they were close to retirement and it cost them a small fortune. They were lucky, many of their generation only went overseas to fight in WW2 and not for recreation. Cheap mass travel did not exist then.

My wife and I have travelled more extensively but at a much lower cost. My son on the other hand has travelled more than I have because he could work and travel easily anywhere in the world, it's just the way the world has changed. I hope that my children are smarter and wealthier than I am and I hope that they all travel extensively. If that means they have greater wealth and apportion more of that greater wealth towards their own lifestyle and enjoyment then good for them. I want them to do exactly that.

Warren Buffet has famously said something along the lines of "he will leave his children enough to do anything they like, but not enough so that they can do nothing"

I believe that a lot of mega wealthy older members of society have similar feelings - leave the kids generous amounts but spread the mega wealth to broader and more deserving groups within our society. I applaud them for that.

Yes there has probably been a change in attitudes, but they look like logical and worthy changes to me. Lets just not cock it all up for our children by bringing in punitive rules that make their future lives miserable when they get to retirement age. We should care about them too much to inflict that upon them.

Edited by peter fraser, 24 Sep 2014, 08:19 AM.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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ThePauk
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Peter
Good to see you come around.
As I have said before the policy directions are not 'MY' thoughts and to attribute them just to me is still just trolling and trying to belittle the ideas. The Commission of Audit, the Grattan Institute and others also supoort and propose the policy.

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zaph
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ThePauk
24 Sep 2014, 10:16 AM
Peter
Good to see you come around.
As I have said before the policy directions are not 'MY' thoughts and to attribute them just to me is still just trolling and trying to belittle the ideas. The Commission of Audit, the Grattan Institute and others also supoort and propose the policy.

You just don't get it.
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ThePauk
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zaph
24 Sep 2014, 10:18 AM
You just don't get it.
I do get it.
Some boomers talk of leaving nothing and some want to leave something, however the reality is that the majority of boomers will not get to leave as much as they expect.
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peter fraser
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ThePauk
24 Sep 2014, 10:16 AM
Peter
Good to see you come around.
As I have said before the policy directions are not 'MY' thoughts and to attribute them just to me is still just trolling and trying to belittle the ideas. The Commission of Audit, the Grattan Institute and others also supoort and propose the policy.

I haven't "come around" as you say - I loathe your idiotic poisonous ideas with a passion.

I can only assume that the Grattan Institute, Commission of Audit and the others that you speak of are just as damned idiotic as you are.

You and your grubby ilk are the type of people who relish seeing others suffer so that they can gain.

I find that disgusting in the extreme. Any pretence that you had to the moral high ground was lost many pages. Intelligent people here deride your ideas, and you will find the same response everywhere. The fact that there is some support amongst the unwashed at MB is a damning indictment on the IQ and mentality of many of those who post there, but you won't find support amongst the intelligent ones who visit those pages.

You ideas stink. You need to understand that.

Now are you still under any disillusion about how I feel on this matter
Edited by peter fraser, 24 Sep 2014, 10:25 AM.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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ThePauk
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peter fraser
24 Sep 2014, 10:21 AM
I haven't "come around" as you say - I loathe your idiotic poisonous ideas with a passion.

I can only assume that the Grattan Institute, Commission of Audit and the others that you speak of are just as damned idiotic as you are.

You and your grubby ilk are the type of people who relish seeing others suffer so that they can gain.

I find that disgusting in the extreme.
You sound alot like Frank.....ilk....mmmm and you are still banging on about MB, how odd...

The policy is not to advantage me, it is to save the taxpayers from supporting boomers who retire as millionaires and who will get a full or part pension. Retireees who may have to use the equity in their home to suppliment their income is hardly suffering.

Attitudes do change between the cohorts and that is the core basis of Generational Theory and no, they do not change on any one particular date as you stupidly suggest.


Once again, lift your game and stop calling them 'YOUR' ideas. You belittle yourself Peter.
Edited by ThePauk, 24 Sep 2014, 10:29 AM.
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peter fraser
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ThePauk
24 Sep 2014, 10:27 AM
You sound alot like Frank.....ilk....mmmm

The policy is not to advantage me, it is to save the taxpayers from supporting boomers who retire as millionaires and who will get a full or part pension. Retireees who may have to use the equity in their home to suppliment their income is hardly suffering.

Attitudes do change between the cohorts and that is the core basis of Generational Theory and no, they do not change on any one particular date as you stupidly suggest.
The policy is not an advantage to anyone at all - it harms all of our society.

Give it up - it is crap that smells like crap, and you are beginning to take on the same odour.

Have I made myself absolutely clear???
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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ThePauk
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peter fraser
24 Sep 2014, 10:29 AM
The policy is not an advantage to anyone at all - it harms all of our society.

Give it up - it is crap that smells like crap, and you are beginning to take on the same odour.

Have I made myself absolutely clear???
Clear?
It is clear that you really do not understand the fiscal challenges we face as the boomers retire and age, as 80% of them will require full or part pensions and free health.
It is also clear that you would like the system to stay as it is and burden the wokers with extra taxes to cover the escalating ageing costs.
It is clear that you do not agree with the COA and others who are working to provide credible solutions.
It is clear that if I state white, you will argue black.
It is clear that you like to belittle the argument and debate by calling the policy suggestions as MY ideas only.

Yes we disagree, not problem with that at all.
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peter fraser
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ThePauk
24 Sep 2014, 10:36 AM
Clear?
It is clear that you really do not understand the fiscal challenges we face as the boomers retire and age, as 80% of them will require full or part pensions and free health.
It is also clear that you would like the system to stay as it is and burden the wokers with extra taxes to cover the escalating ageing costs.
It is clear that you do not agree with the COA and others who are working to provide credible solutions.
It is clear that if I state white, you will argue black.
It is clear that you like to belittle the argument and debate by calling the policy suggestions as MY ideas only.

Yes we disagree, not problem with that at all.
Well thank God you at last understand that we are polar opposites on this issue.

You said above -

Quote:
 
Some boomers talk of leaving nothing and some want to leave something, however the reality is that the majority of boomers will not get to leave as much as they expect.


Maybe you are right, maybe the boomers won't leave as much to their children as they would like to because of rising medical and aged care costs, that is an unknown, but why take everything away from their children so that they leave nothing?

Why do you want to punish their children.

If a boomer had to literally eat his/her house to stay alive that's not punishing that boomer, it's punishing their children who will benefit from their inheritance. How come you don't get that?

When you play chess do you only think about the immediate move, or do you look well beyond that?
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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