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69% of Australian Retirees expect to leave a very significant inheritance to their children; HSBC Survey
Topic Started: 21 Sep 2014, 11:17 PM (11,737 Views)
peter fraser
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ThePauk
22 Sep 2014, 04:08 PM
So, you think they will sell up, consume and then go on a full pension....mmmmmm...
Good for the economy then and reducing house prices. Noted.
Your aim was to reduce the cost of the aged pension on the nation, and ensure that the greedy boomers left an inheritance for their children - but the minute I mentioned an alternative that would deliver you a cut price house you took the bait and you didn't give a damn about the cost to the nation or the boomers leaving anything to their children.

Credibility gone...........
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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herbie
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Issue 1: Entry level housing is expensive.
Proposed solution: Very strongly encourage the aged to downgrade to entry level housing thereby increasing demand for entry level housing.

Issue 2: Only 31% of Australians own their home debt free.
Proposed solution: Tell people they can't take a lump sum from their super when they reach retirement age to pay off their housing debt.

Issue 3 (as believed by some): Upcoming retirees don't intend to leave an inheritance.
Proposed solution: Make it impossible for them to leave an inheritance.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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ThePauk
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peter fraser
22 Sep 2014, 04:13 PM
Your aim was to reduce the cost of the aged pension on the nation, and ensure that the greedy boomers left an inheritance for their children - but the minute I mentioned an alternative that would deliver you a cut price house you took the bait and you didn't give a damn about the cost to the nation or the boomers leaving anything to their children.

Credibility gone...........
lol. It was you that said they would sell up and me that said they would not. I was simply saying that 'so, you think"...and what would be the result of 'your' thoughts. In fact, a focus group held recently confirmed that the majority would not move for many reasons, financial, friends, family etc.

On boomer inheritance, I actually do not care if they leave nothing. I note it just as a sociological condition for the boomers. Not sure where you got any impression that I actually cared about what they left. If people want to spend it all, that is there right if they manage it well, however then going onto a taxpayer funded pension, it becomes my right to ask questions.

Peter, do you think I care if I have any credibility from you, a mortgage broker?...Nope, do not care what you think of me, however your insights are a different matter.
herbie
22 Sep 2014, 04:23 PM
Issue 1: Entry level housing is expensive.
Proposed solution: Very strongly encourage the aged to downgrade to entry level housing thereby increasing demand for entry level housing.

Issue 2: Only 31% of Australians own their home debt free.
Proposed solution: Tell people they can't take a lump sum from their super when they reach retirement age to pay off their housing debt.

Issue 3 (as believed by some): Upcoming retirees don't intend to leave an inheritance.
Proposed solution: Make it impossible for them to leave an inheritance.
Issue 1 - is about encouraging people to remain in place and take advantage of the enhanced PLS. Research has shown not many will sell up.
Affordable housing will be solved by other levers. MP tools, land tax (which is also why the enhanced PLS is important as pensioners will be required to pay the land tax as well), increasing supply etc.

Issue 2 - yep, lump sums have been an issue in the past, however the proposed asset test to include the PPOR will in fact see many more opt not to take the lump sum and pay off the mortgage and instead take the super as an annuity.

Issue 3 - There really is no issue with the intent or not of boomers to leave any inheritance. The issue is how/where they consume and if they then end up on a pension after luxury spending or not.
Edited by ThePauk, 22 Sep 2014, 04:31 PM.
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peter fraser
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ThePauk
22 Sep 2014, 04:26 PM
lol. It was you that said they would sell up and me that said they would not. I was simply saying that 'so, you think"...and what would be the result of 'your' thoughts. In fact, a focus group held recently confirmed that the majority would not move for many reasons, financial, friends, family etc.

On boomer inheritance, I actually do not care if they leave nothing. I note it just as a sociological condition for the boomers. Not sure where you got any impression that I actually cared about what they left. If people want to spend it all, that is there right if they manage it well, however then going onto a taxpayer funded pension, it becomes my right to ask questions.

Peter, do you think I care if I have any credibility from you, a mortgage broker?...Nope, do not care what you think of me, however your insights are a different matter.

Issue 1 - is about encouraging people to remain in place and take advantage of the enhanced PLS. Research has shown not many will sell up.
Affordable housing will be solved by other levers. MP tools, land tax (which is also why the enhanced PLS is important as pensioners will be required to pay the land tax as well), increasing supply etc.

Issue 2 - yep, lump sums have been an issue in the past, however the proposed asset test to include the PPOR will in fact see many more opt not to take the lump sum and pay off the mortgage and instead take the super as an annuity.

Issue 3 - There really is no issue with the intent or not of boomers to leave any inheritance. The issue is how/where they consume and if they then end up on a pension after luxury spending or not.
Breathtaking ignorance, just breathtaking.

Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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herbie
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ThePauk
22 Sep 2014, 04:26 PM
... Research has shown not many will sell up ...
Link please.
ThePauk
22 Sep 2014, 04:26 PM
Issue 3 ... The issue is how/where they consume and if they then end up on a pension after luxury spending or not.
Ah, so the following phase of 'The Master Plan' will be to employ lots of dedicated, hard working, highly productive Centrelink personnel to investigate and analyse if individuals have spent their money wisely enough to be qualify for the pension then will it?
Edited by herbie, 22 Sep 2014, 04:53 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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ThePauk
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herbie
22 Sep 2014, 04:44 PM
Link please.

Ah, so the following phase of 'The Master Plan' will be to employ lots of dedicated, hard working, highly productive Centrelink personnel to investigate and analyse if individuals have spent their money wisely enough to be qualify for the pension then will it?
http://www.ahuri.edu.au/downloads/media/2013/Boomers.pdf

Nope, no more Centrelink staff than usual I expect. The linking of the ATO to Centrelink has solved that.
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herbie
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ThePauk
22 Sep 2014, 05:08 PM
Try harder - That link says "43 per cent had downsized" - And this is even without the VERY significant incentive that the proposal you support is going to give them to do so.

And it also says "Other studies identify a reluctance to release the capital in the family home unless "non- housing wealth" is close to being exhausted." Which says to me that they are NOT going to sign up en masse to any reverse mortgage scheme that WILL exhaust their housing wealth - Rather, they'll downsize as I suspected.

Thus increasing competition for and price pressure on entry level housing - As I told you it would.

ThePauk
22 Sep 2014, 05:08 PM
Nope, no more Centrelink staff than usual I expect. The linking of the ATO to Centrelink has solved that.
Ah, so the following phase of The Master Plan is to have the ATO investigating and analysing if individuals have spent their money wisely enough to qualify for the pension then - I'm SO glad we clarified that little misunderstanding ... LOL!
Edited by herbie, 22 Sep 2014, 06:30 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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ThePauk
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herbie
22 Sep 2014, 06:20 PM
Try harder - That link says "43 per cent had downsized" - And this is even without the VERY significant incentive that the proposal you support is going to give them to do so.

And it also says"Other studies identify a reluctance to release the capital in the family home unless "non- housing wealth" is close to being exhausted." Which says to me that they are NOT going to sign up en masse to any reverse mortgage scheme that WILL exhaust their housing wealth - Rather, they'll downsize as I suspected.
Herbs
43% did means the majority did not.
People will signup to the PLS as the PPOR VG amount of $500k plus will be included in the pensions asset test.
If they do decide to downsize it is likely to be apartment living and not the same properties FHB would be looking at. Even if it is, it is far better than paying millionaires a full pension.
Edited by ThePauk, 22 Sep 2014, 06:26 PM.
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herbie
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ThePauk
22 Sep 2014, 06:26 PM
43% did means the majority did not.
Which the proposal you support will change.
ThePauk
22 Sep 2014, 06:26 PM
People will signup to the PLS as the PPOR VG amount of $500k plus will be included in the pensions asset test.
They will not sign up to it; Because they are not stupid.
ThePauk
22 Sep 2014, 06:26 PM
If they do decide to downsize it is likely to be apartment living and not the same properties FHB would be looking at.
Link please.
ThePauk
22 Sep 2014, 06:26 PM
Even if it is, it is far better than paying millionaires a full pension.
With that being your personal value judgement based opinion. So of no more or less value than anyone else's personal value judgement based opinion.

PS: I do notice you omitted to comment further on the following:

"Ah, so the following phase of The Master Plan is to have the ATO investigating and analysing if individuals have spent their money wisely enough to qualify for the pension then"
Edited by herbie, 22 Sep 2014, 06:44 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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ThePauk
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Herbs
Reverse Mortgages are available today and one of the fastest areas in the US currently.

THE ATO currently check for 'gifts' by pensioners and no plan that I have seen will analysis their spending habits. Perhaps you know something I do not.
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