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Southern Hemisphere sea ice record high
Topic Started: 16 Sep 2014, 04:42 AM (3,392 Views)
goldbug
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Peter is right. What the morons protesting the taxes don't seem to be able to get their heads around is the fact that coal and oil are cheap and solar wind and all the other alternatives are expensive.

Everyone wants a clean future but no one is prepared to pay for it. Buy a Nissan Leaf, Pay up or shutup.
Shadow was hopelessly wrong about the Gold Bull Market.
What else is he wrong about?
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miw
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peter fraser
18 Sep 2014, 07:58 PM
No it's part of the same thing. No one wants new taxes, but the reality is that to change the behaviour of consumers governments have to change existing tax benefits and maybe take them away from some fuels and award them to what they see as the solution. Hopefully that will be tax neutral.

If they don't do that people won't change their behaviour.
Tax is not the only way. Maybe not even the best way.

If you look at Europe, you could argue that their trading mechanism (essentially a tax that also enriches the likes of big accounting firms.) has had zero impact, whereas regulation has achieved big changes. (See the solar initiative in Germany.)

China is also going full-on with regulation. They did something this week which will make it uneconomic to build another coal-fired power station pretty quickly. They are building railway lines which are shutting down air routes one by one. (and some say that the impact of aircraft is disproportionately large.)

To me pissing around with taxes is a move made by governments that are too gutless to actually govern. The good thing about taxes that corporates have to pay is that most people are too dumb to realise that it is the consumer who always pays in the end. And if you collect the tax and then just use it as a method of shoring up a deficit or giving away more freebies to the public, you just make your own industry uncompetitive without altering behaviour on the ground.

The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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Foxy
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Zero is coming...

Here is a youtube clip of global warmers digesting so new information on the global warmer god.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU_dAXqWwTo
http://www.afr.com/content/dam/images/g/n/2/1/u/8/image.imgtype.afrArticleInline.620x0.png/1456285515560.png
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Massive
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Firstly
Why does climate change have to be reason behind these changes. Cant it just be policy created to enforce a unified desire to make sure the human race creates minimal waste footprint that leeches into other ecosystems ?.. pollution is undeniable and measurable - climate change has proven to be debatable.

Secondly
Why cant governments just agree to make new standards and legislate change? Essentially an increased cost for polluting industry without sounding like a tax cash grab.
Say an environmental protection legislation ( nothing to do with climate change, just environmental protection from pollution ) that demands x% of the power grid to run on renewable energies, or factories must comply to 'x' emissions from their chimneys and add x% of mature trees etc as catchment along with change the standards for industrial waste and recycling ...

while i dont agree - if taxation is the 'only option' , then why not simply tax pollution once it goes over an agreed quota ? the benefit is it will still clean up atmosphere AND help the environment in general without throwing it all in the same pot as climate change science ...


But legislation over taxation for mine - as taxation IS a cash grab that allows industries to continue to pollute and pay more tax rather than simply being enforced to make real change










Edited by Massive, 19 Sep 2014, 03:09 AM.
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miw
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Massive
19 Sep 2014, 02:56 AM
But legislation over taxation for mine - as taxation IS a cash grab that allows industries to continue to pollute and pay more tax rather than simply being enforced to make real change
My objection exactly. It's thinly disguised wealth redistribution which has the side-effect of lulling the masses into (mostly erroneously) thinking something is being done.

Unless it hits everybody's pocket according to their activity and they know when it's happening, then it is just a con.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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Foxy
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Zero is coming...

Massive
19 Sep 2014, 02:56 AM
Firstly
Why does climate change have to be reason behind these changes. Cant it just be policy created to enforce a unified desire to make sure the human race creates minimal waste footprint that leeches into other ecosystems ?.. pollution is undeniable and measurable - climate change has proven to be debatable.

Secondly
Why cant governments just agree to make new standards and legislate change? Essentially an increased cost for polluting industry without sounding like a tax cash grab.
Say an environmental protection legislation ( nothing to do with climate change, just environmental protection from pollution ) that demands x% of the power grid to run on renewable energies, or factories must comply to 'x' emissions from their chimneys and add x% of mature trees etc as catchment along with change the standards for industrial waste and recycling ...

while i dont agree - if taxation is the 'only option' , then why not simply tax pollution once it goes over an agreed quota ? the benefit is it will still clean up atmosphere AND help the environment in general without throwing it all in the same pot as climate change science ...


But legislation over taxation for mine - as taxation IS a cash grab that allows industries to continue to pollute and pay more tax rather than simply being enforced to make real change










I totally agree, but why base a good idea on a lie??

Well i simply say that the good idea is being subverted by greedy people wanting to introduce a new tax.
Pure and simple.

And how much tax is enough, i mean we got to save the planet Right, so how could you say more tax is bad right.
What sort of person would not want to save the planet???
Your not one of those climate change sceptics are you??

Come to papa.

Peter
:D
http://www.afr.com/content/dam/images/g/n/2/1/u/8/image.imgtype.afrArticleInline.620x0.png/1456285515560.png
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Count du Monet
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Massive
19 Sep 2014, 02:56 AM
Firstly
Why does climate change have to be reason behind these changes. Cant it just be policy created to enforce a unified desire to make sure the human race creates minimal waste footprint that leeches into other ecosystems ?.. pollution is undeniable and measurable - climate change has proven to be debatable.












Almost every human society that has had the power to do so has sucked the environment for all it's worth and brought about its own downfall.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
You are no longer customer, you are property!!!

Don't be SAUCY with me Bernaisse
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Foxy
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Zero is coming...

Count du Monet
19 Sep 2014, 10:26 AM
Almost every human society that has had the power to do so has sucked the environment for all it's worth and brought about its own downfall.
It is seductive to say that.
Not true but seductive.
The premise is that we are not to change our environment.
And that any change is bad.
Hmmmmmmm
You are a sucker, i here there is a cheap bridge going in Sydney.
Peter
http://www.afr.com/content/dam/images/g/n/2/1/u/8/image.imgtype.afrArticleInline.620x0.png/1456285515560.png
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Count du Monet
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Mustapha Mond
19 Sep 2014, 11:50 AM
It is seductive to say that.
Not true but seductive.
The premise is that we are not to change our environment.
And that any change is bad.
Hmmmmmmm
You are a sucker, i here there is a cheap bridge going in Sydney.
Peter
The world's fossil resources won't regrow during the time frame of human existence. Nor do the mineral resources. Once they are gone, most will be gone for good.

You expect mining on other planets with flying saucers?
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
You are no longer customer, you are property!!!

Don't be SAUCY with me Bernaisse
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ThePauk
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Diamond Member
The solutions to a carbon free enegy supply are already here. Small nuclear reactors to plug into our coal plants and phase the coal plansts out. Lots of the SNR's would be the key and they can be bought from GE now as they have 77 on USA navy vessels now.

No tax, no carbon.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Nuclear-Fuel-Cycle/Power-Reactors/Small-Nuclear-Power-Reactors/

http://www.nuclearinst.com/NI-events/SMR-Seminar/18602
Edited by ThePauk, 19 Sep 2014, 04:18 PM.
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