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Still Kicking...
Topic Started: 3 Sep 2014, 03:46 PM (2,798 Views)
ThePauk
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herbie
4 Sep 2014, 04:49 PM
Go pork yourself Pork (in the absence of attempting to give any sensible attempts at answers to my questions) ... :)

PS: FUCK Socialism! ... :)
Herbs
What questions?
I say fuck extremism, socialist or capitalist.
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herbie
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ThePauk
4 Sep 2014, 04:53 PM
What questions?
Boring little questions that Socialists' brains can't fathom like how it might be that one gets to live better long term by upping productivity rather than upping tax.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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ThePauk
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herbie
4 Sep 2014, 05:06 PM
Boring little questions that Socialists' brains can't fathom like how it might be that one gets to live better long term by upping productivity rather than upping tax.
Herbs
Is that a question or a statement?

I have already agreed with you that an increase in productivity is by far the better solution and my answer to that is to significantly decrease the cost of living, inc house prices, so more people are happier and more productive.

Taxes will red to rise to ensure the Ageing society is catered for, however as I have stated before the Ageing issue is actually two distinct issues. The baby boomer bulge with is temporary and increased lonjevity which is here to stay.

Where we differ is that it seems you want to tax the workers more, rather than broad based taxation changes like a higher GST and land tax. Actually, I get the feeling you just want less tax and offer no solutions at all as to how we actually are going to pay for the increase in pensions and health as 80% of the 5.2 million boomers will require full or part pensions and free healthcare.
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miw
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Death duties are a dead letter. Forget them. Nobody will vote for a government that says it will re-introduce death duties, and any govt that managed to sneak them in would be replaced at the following election by someone who promised to repeal them.

More to the point, we already have stealth death duties in the form of CGT. Maybe a little more attention should be paid to stop avoidance of CGT through family trusts, but that is just fiddling around the edges.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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ThePauk
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miw
4 Sep 2014, 05:21 PM
Death duties are a dead letter. Forget them. Nobody will vote for a government that says it will re-introduce death duties, and any govt that managed to sneak them in would be replaced at the following election by someone who promised to repeal them.

More to the point, we already have stealth death duties in the form of CGT. Maybe a little more attention should be paid to stop avoidance of CGT through family trusts, but that is just fiddling around the edges.
Yet again I agree, what is in the water?

I never said that they would be introduced by a major party but as we know, majors are not running the show now or the last parliament.

Yep, CGT is catching some, however the PPOR is exempt for any CGT and that is where most have made significant gains, at the expense of the young.
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peter fraser
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ThePauk
4 Sep 2014, 05:27 PM
Yep, CGT is catching some, however the PPOR is exempt for any CGT and that is where most have made significant gains, at the expense of the young.
If they bought a house when they were young and still live in it how have they made significant gains using an exemption of CGT for their PPOR.

Honestly Pauk, you just get these dreamy ideas that you think will solve the woes of the world in one easy step. Nothing is ever that easy.

All of their lives these people have been encouraged to buy their house and save for their retirement so they wouldn't need government housing or the aged pension. Now you want to tax them into poverty so they need government housing assistance and an aged pension. What about the social contract that decades of governments of both sides have had with the people.

When the younger generations see their parents stripped of their wealth by your policies, what incentive will they have to buy and pay off a house and save for their retirement. None at all so they won't. What good will that do future generations?

Have you ever sat down and thought this through. For every action there are consequences - that's why countless politicians have fiddled with the system often making everything worse. They don't think it through and the unintended consequences end up being shouldered by us - the taxpayers.

Now sit down and think it through, start again because this plan is pretty crappy.
Edited by peter fraser, 4 Sep 2014, 05:41 PM.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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Blondie girl
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ThePauk
4 Sep 2014, 04:43 PM



Blondie
Look out, if you raise the Ageing issues here, you will accused here of being a 'granny basher' and an ageist.

I agree some stats are shitty, like the bs stats that shoddy roles out about housing being as affordable now as 2003, regardless of any demographic or workforce issues, like the rise in our casualisation of our workforce.

Ps, I am Paul.
But it's a realistic topic it's a fact that most of us will be living longer, it's going to affect not just housing stuff but the socio, ethical, & economics for every generation.

Newjerk? can you try harder than dig up another person's blog. My first promo was with Billabong and my name in English is modified with a T, am Perth born but also lived in Sydney to make my $$
It's Absolutely Fabulous if it includes brilliant locations, & high calibre tenants..what more does one want? Understand the power of the two "P"" or be financially challenged
Even better when there is family who are property mad and one is born in some entitlements.....Understand that beautiful women are the exhibitionists we crave attention, whilst hot blooded men are the voyeurs ... A stunning woman can command and takes pleasure in being noticed. Seems not too many understand what it means to hold and own props and get threatened by those who do.
Banks are considered to be law abiding and & rather boring places yeah not true . A bank balance sheet will show capital is dwarfed by their liabilities this means when a portions of loans is falling its problems for the bank.
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miw
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ThePauk
4 Sep 2014, 05:27 PM
Yet again I agree, what is in the water?

I never said that they would be introduced by a major party but as we know, majors are not running the show now or the last parliament.

Yep, CGT is catching some, however the PPOR is exempt for any CGT and that is where most have made significant gains, at the expense of the young.
As far as I know the PPOR is exempt from CGT on death only if the person who inherits actually lives there afterwards. For the PPOR only, you can get around that by selling just before you die and leaving cash. For other assets this doesn't work either.

Majors are not necessarily running the show, but that just makes it even harder to get something like DDs through. There will always be enough of the cross-benches crowd who will see a great opportunity to curry favour by blocking it. At any rate, you can be sure that if one major proposes it the other will automatically oppose it. It is a dead letter because it is just an incredibly unpopular concept. The vast majority of Australians are now hoping to either inherit or pass on some amount of wealth. It is no longer 1950 or 1933.

I also oppose DD on the basis that it forms a huge disincentive to capital formation and the long-term accrual of small gains, both of which are important to the economy, but that is another story.
Edited by miw, 4 Sep 2014, 05:57 PM.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
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ThePauk
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Peter
And your plan is? Oh, that right I have never heard any solutions proposed by you. You seem quite happy with business as usual and in denial of any of the fiscal challenges facing our ageing nation. Still hard to expect anything else from a boomer mortgage broker I suppose.

My concern is the taxpayers and workers.

Any pensioner living in a $2 million property and $1 million in cash, should not get 1 cent as a pension, but they do. The number is approx 400,000 pensioners living in a property worth more than $1 million and who currently get a full or part pension. No one is suggesting kicking anyone out of their home, only you from time to time to seem alarmist. I suggest reverse mortgages provided by Centrelink as an extension to the Pension Loan Scheme currently in place now. I am also suggesting that we use the VG amount of $500k+ to be included in the asset test for pensions. That is if your VG is $2 million, then $ $1.5 million is counted as an asset in the asset test. Zaph is the one who pointed out that using the market value is a complex issue, whereas now I think the VG amount is quite simple.

"All of their lives these people have been encouraged to buy their house and save for their retirement so they wouldn't need government housing or the aged pension."
Bullshit! people are using their lumps sums to pay off the PPOR to be entitled to a pension, which they feel 100% entitled to as 'we paid out tax' bullshit argument. More boomers are going into retirement in debt than any previous generation did before them.

The younger generation have a far greater social conscience than the boomers, as evidenced by their contributions to charity. If you think they are growing up only giving a dam about themselves, then you are looking through the boomer-glasses.

So thanks for your advice to think a bit more, I do hope you also take your own advice and perhaps offer some of your solutions up for debate.
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Blondie girl
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miw
4 Sep 2014, 05:21 PM
Maybe a little more attention should be paid to stop avoidance of CGT through family trusts
Noooooooooooooooooo
That's would not be beneficial for my situation.
obviously you don't get involved with trust stuff.
Newjerk? can you try harder than dig up another person's blog. My first promo was with Billabong and my name in English is modified with a T, am Perth born but also lived in Sydney to make my $$
It's Absolutely Fabulous if it includes brilliant locations, & high calibre tenants..what more does one want? Understand the power of the two "P"" or be financially challenged
Even better when there is family who are property mad and one is born in some entitlements.....Understand that beautiful women are the exhibitionists we crave attention, whilst hot blooded men are the voyeurs ... A stunning woman can command and takes pleasure in being noticed. Seems not too many understand what it means to hold and own props and get threatened by those who do.
Banks are considered to be law abiding and & rather boring places yeah not true . A bank balance sheet will show capital is dwarfed by their liabilities this means when a portions of loans is falling its problems for the bank.
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