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Recovery of Pension Expenses; Confiscate the family home to repay the debt to the taxpayer
Topic Started: 21 Aug 2014, 04:35 PM (2,200 Views)
vdmruss
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miw
21 Aug 2014, 09:30 PM
Yeah. It's a bit unfair to shoot the messenger. But the response was exactly what the general public would come up with, which is why it would never fly.

I even think it might be a good idea on the first pass, as long as *all* welfare including unemployment benefits, medicare, disability pensions, etc etc were treated as loans that could be recouped from the estate. But it would never fly, and even if it did you'd just see people doing their inter-generational transfers while still healthy. The bigger a tax is, the more incentive there is to avoid it.

If I were the dictator I'd go back to the old system of giving everyone the same pension without means test, but make it taxable income and fund the cost by raising the GST and the tax level on super contributions.
This, I can see being a real problem. You can't fully prevent or control this to perfection, but a fair and square CGT on all assets would be in order.

The transfer of the family home into another name would trigger CGT at that particular point in time. The CGT payment could be paid for by the next of kin - hence the pension piggy-bank would be topped up.

The public will go to insane lengths and come up with all kind of irrational reasons to protect their interests and their welfare payments. I think the response to this thread so far has been a good indication.

I am more looking forward to expanding the idea of no pension at all.

P.S. This concept sort of resembles the HECS-HELP model.
Edited by vdmruss, 21 Aug 2014, 09:46 PM.
Let me assure you that this isn't one of those shady pyramid schemes that you've been hearing about. No sir, our model is the Trapezoid which guarantees each investor an 800% return within hours.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.
"It's an itchy blanket, it's designed to remind you how lucky you are"
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peter fraser
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vdmruss
21 Aug 2014, 09:44 PM
This, I can see being a real problem. You can't fully prevent or control this to perfection, but a fair and square CGT on all assets would be in order.

The transfer of the family home into another name would trigger CGT at that particular point in time. The CGT payment could be paid for by the next of kin - hence the pension piggy-bank would be topped up.

The public will go to insane lengths and come up with all kind of irrational reasons to protect their interests and their welfare payments. I think the response to this thread so far has been a good indication.

I am more looking forward to expanding the idea of no pension at all.
What if the property is held in the name of a unit trust with the children as beneficiaries but the parents as trustees, or a company as trustee with the parents as directors but not shareholders.

These are not exotic entities, they are very common.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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vdmruss
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peter fraser
21 Aug 2014, 09:51 PM
What if the property is held in the name of a unit trust with the children as beneficiaries but the parents as trustees, or a company as trustee with the parents as directors but not shareholders.

These are not exotic entities, they are very common.
There are a ton of loopholes in existence.

I've met people with trusts and they tend to be on the well-off side.

Obviously there is no way to perfect this in a forum.
Edited by vdmruss, 21 Aug 2014, 09:57 PM.
Let me assure you that this isn't one of those shady pyramid schemes that you've been hearing about. No sir, our model is the Trapezoid which guarantees each investor an 800% return within hours.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.
"It's an itchy blanket, it's designed to remind you how lucky you are"
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miw
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vdmruss
21 Aug 2014, 09:44 PM
The transfer of the family home into another name would trigger CGT at that particular point in time. The CGT payment could be paid for by the next of kin - hence the pension piggy-bank would be topped up.
Unless you actually live in the house, inheriting a house triggers CGT as it is now.

Not sure what you mean by a "fair and square CGT". Australia's rate for capital gains tax is well above the OECD average (yes. That is *after* the so-called "discount") and right in the middle of the pack for those countries that have a CGT.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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Count du Monet
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vdmruss
21 Aug 2014, 04:35 PM
Just thought of an idea.

What if we were to recover pension costs from the estate upon death?

I.e. Your pension payout is tracked and accumulated (with nominal interest, of-course) similar to a HECS debt. You receive a regular statement that shows your pension cost accumulation.

At death, the pension cost is recovered from the estate. The rest is is inherited.

All assets are means tested before qualifying for a pension.

Good? :tu: House(s) and other assets are sold to recover the cost to the taxpayer. Seems fair.
I just had a thought, what happens when you've retired and find your super has been inflated away to nothing and to survive you go on a pension?

Actually even in the 19th century people used to pay Mutual funds for their retirement, UB and sickness benefit. But they tended to go belly up as managers made off with the bag of cash! Today it gets inflated away!
Edited by Count du Monet, 22 Aug 2014, 12:12 PM.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
You are no longer customer, you are property!!!

Don't be SAUCY with me Bernaisse
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hoofarted
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Some save by paying off a house... Some save as cash. What is the difference and why should one be treated differently to the other? The one with the cash stuck in the house should sell it or agree to get it back when the asset it sold or transferred.
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