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Good News: Treasury pushing remodel of Negative Gearing for only new homes!; Corrupt and vested real estate interest run for cover!
Topic Started: 14 Aug 2014, 09:26 PM (33,885 Views)
Chris
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Strindberg
20 Aug 2014, 08:15 PM
You are revealing yourself to be an arse and sucker for made up crap written by Catherine Cashmore and her like.

I suggest you examine the origin of your made up $36b (2011/12) figure, determine the correct figure (~$2b in deferred tax), and then return with an apology for being such a sucker for paper selling bear shit. That is if you are at all interested in having any credibility.
No apology here, deferred losses would never be a viable option for most people who now NG as they would have to sustain the true loss until a future tax periods. Most, if not all could but afford to if this hence the reason why NG exists in the first place.

You are then assuming that everyone who NG today will be able to afford to defer losses and will then all claim these losses in the future, wrong wrong wrong.

Remove NG and watch these so called investors drop like flies, foreseeable they will halve overnight. This half may defer future losses on any properties purchased in the future but unlikely as the market would correct and sensibility would return to the market. Like my father who has never NG a property in his life, all have been neutrally/positively geared with a 20% depo, if you can't afford the 20% then you can't afford to be an investor!!!

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Veritas
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Strindberg
20 Aug 2014, 08:15 PM
You are revealing yourself to be an arse and sucker for made up crap written by Catherine Cashmore and her like.

I suggest you examine the origin of your made up $36b (2011/12) figure, determine the correct figure (~$2b in deferred tax), and then return with an apology for being such a sucker for paper selling bear shit. That is if you are at all interested in having any credibility.
As opposed to made up spin jobs by you pricks?
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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Elastic
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Shadow
20 Aug 2014, 07:33 PM
No, I'm not saying that. What a ridiculous claim.


Where did you pluck that figure from?

Net rental loss in 2011/2012 was $7.8 billion.

It would be much lower than that today due to the drop in interest rates since the 2011/2012 tax year.

Posted Image

In any case, it doesn't actually cost anything - it's just a few billion dollars claimed today rather than claimed a few years later, which is all that would happen if losses had to be quarantined
Well that completely refutes Mike's assertions from earlier.

Hi Strindberg, did you get the emergency call from Shadow.
"Strindberg! Strindberg! We have a situation down here. I appear to be losing a debate to some guy called Piccolo. Run some background checks and dig up some dirt ASAP!. Over"
Only a rat can win a rat race.

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Shadow
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Evil Mouzealot Specufestor

Chris
20 Aug 2014, 08:36 PM
Based in Gratton institutes figures that, like you, calculated the correct figure.
Fixed it for you.
Edited by Shadow, 20 Aug 2014, 08:53 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Massive
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Elastic
20 Aug 2014, 08:45 PM
Hi Strindberg, did you get the emergency call from Shadow.
"Strindberg! Strindberg! We have a situation down here. I appear to be losing a debate to some guy called Piccolo. Run some background checks and dig up some dirt ASAP!. Over"
I always thought strindberg was shadows aggressive alter-ego - used specifically for character assassination / play the man when the debate has turned out of shadow's favour.

Either that or he is the incoherent side-kick..
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miw
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Chris
20 Aug 2014, 08:36 PM
Revenue you all claim wouldn't exist unless NG was around. Wide awake shadow thank you.
You are making that up. I don't think anyone is saying the revenue would even be reduced if rental property losses had to be quarantined. In fact many of the property pressure groups are saying exactly the opposite - revenue will be forced to increase.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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Sydneyite
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Chris
20 Aug 2014, 08:42 PM
No apology here, deferred losses would never be a viable option for most people who now NG as they would have to sustain the true loss until a future tax periods. Most, if not all could but afford to if this hence the reason why NG exists in the first place.

You are then assuming that everyone who NG today will be able to afford to defer losses and will then all claim these losses in the future, wrong wrong wrong.

Remove NG and watch these so called investors drop like flies, foreseeable they will halve overnight. This half may defer future losses on any properties purchased in the future but unlikely as the market would correct and sensibility would return to the market. Like my father who has never NG a property in his life, all have been neutrally/positively geared with a 20% depo, if you can't afford the 20% then you can't afford to be an investor!!!
So you are not willing to admit that your obviously incorrect claim that NG costs "$36B" was COMPLETELY WRONG??? And instead just have a big wriggle over whether the some or all of actual figure of $2B-$4B may or may not actually represent "deferred" costs if there was no NG?

Pathetic. :re:
Edited by Sydneyite, 21 Aug 2014, 10:27 AM.
For Aussie property bears, "denial", is not just a long river in North Africa.....
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skamy
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piccolo
20 Aug 2014, 05:46 PM
Rubbish. GST is paid by the entity that purchases the property being constructed. In the case of individuals (the majority of new builds) they can't claim the GST and are the ultimate payer of this cost.

Developers pay GST on materials they use during the construction and sometimes on labour hire but claim it back when they lodge their BAS.

Your statement that "GST is paid for by the developer out of the developer profit" is so wrong it shows you have a massive lack of understanding of how this all works.
No it is you who does not understand. However the tax is supposed to work it is paid by the developer. The Purchaser buys a house at the market price. The developer cannot then say I am adding GST to that price.

Prior to the GST a house sold with my previous figures ie built for $500K and sold for $600K the developer makes $100K.

After the GST the house still cost $500k minus build GSTwhich would be about $25K on a 50/50 land /build split. The house will still only sell for $600K as that is the market rate. Therefore the net GST cost of $60 with 25 K claimed back would be $45K.
So now the developer only makes $55K.

So the GST is ultimately paid for by the developer.

Clearly you have not developed land since the GST was introduced or you would know this. GST on new build has affected small spec builders enormously and since 2003 when the tax was fully implemented.
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993
The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
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Shadow
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Evil Mouzealot Specufestor

Elastic
20 Aug 2014, 08:45 PM
Hi Strindberg, did you get the emergency call from Shadow.
"Strindberg! Strindberg! We have a situation down here. I appear to be losing a debate to some guy called Piccolo. Run some background checks and dig up some dirt ASAP!. Over"
What has this got to do with the discussion?
Massive
20 Aug 2014, 08:54 PM
I always thought strindberg was shadows aggressive alter-ego - used specifically for character assassination / play the man when the debate has turned out of shadow's favour.

Either that or he is the incoherent side-kick..
Or this?

If you want to cheer on your fellow bears, at least post some data or something.
Edited by Shadow, 20 Aug 2014, 09:24 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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goldbug
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Shadow
20 Aug 2014, 08:53 PM
Fixed it for you.
Don't kid yourself shadow, you couldn't fix a breakfast for a 5 year old.
Shadow was hopelessly wrong about the Gold Bull Market.
What else is he wrong about?
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