Any taxes you incur on buying your suit would contribute to the 'provision of goods and services' sector (however homeowners do obviously contribute to that sector as well).
Basically all working adults contribute to rows 1,2,4 and 5, but only those of us involved with property contribute to row 3...
You don't contribute any housing sector taxes, but I do.
So I subsidise you, but there's no need to thank me. If you want to hurl some more abuse instead of thanking me, that's fine.
Ah I see you have now made this about how you subsidise me.
As you would say: Relevance?
I'm not finished with your shonky definition of housing sector.
Have you got a better one than if you pay tax on something you buy you become part of the sector associated with that good or service?
Because that's rolling around the floor laughable.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?
The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly. Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
So if I understand you, you would like to know what proportion of that $40B figure is paid by property investors on property available for rent vs by OOs? Hard to say for sure I would think, but as a starting point take at least 1/3 of rates, and 1/3 stamp duties (maybe more if PIs turnover more often?), then add in 100% of land taxes, and 100% of tax paid on rental income, as these are only levied on PIs, and then some proportion of the other taxes (like GST on new builds etc). A back of the envelope number here would be around 50%-ish or $20B+ I reckon. Want to have a stab at it?
Sounds about right... $20 billion annual tax revenue from investors plus $20 billion from owner-occupiers.
Yet the bears whinge about a few billion being deferred via negative gearing.
Pretty easy to see who is really subsiding who here.
No wonder Veritas is so annoyed... it hinders his yearning to play the victim and blame nasty specufestors for his inability to afford a home.
No wonder Veritas is so annoyed... it hinders his yearning to play the victim and blame nasty specufestors for his inability to afford a home.
I thought everyone can afford a home Shadow? That's your line.
Anyway, seeing as you are refusing to engage with the substantive issues I have raised, I can take it you concede you are talking out your arse.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?
The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly. Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
Obviously if you go and waste your money on the latest gadgets, plasma TVs, foreign holidays, paying rent etc. as bears tend to do, then there won't be much left over.
I thought everyone can afford a home Shadow? That's your line.
Anyway, seeing as you are refusing to engage with the substantive issues I have raised, I can take it you concede you are talking out your arse.
What are you talking about now? We were addressing the VERY point you raised, and looking at the proportion of the total "tax from housing" that can be attributed to investors/developers etc! Isn't that exactly what you are (now) on about?
You are a very confusing person to debate anything with.
For Aussie property bears, "denial", is not just a long river in North Africa.....
Obviously if you go and waste your money on the latest gadgets, plasma TVs, foreign holidays, paying rent etc. as bears tend to do, then there won't be much left over.
Yeah, and you could get throat cancer tomorrow.
Who the fuck are you to tell anyone how to live their lives?
Also, you might want to acquaint yourself with the "paradox of thrift"
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?
The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly. Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
Bump - Shadow the numbers you presented show that property investors contribute bugger all net tax on a huge asset base. Rates directly benefit the property paying it. Taxes on new builds is mostly paid by owner occupiers. GST from new builds is also mostly paid by owner occupiers. In addition the negative gearing claims by property investors need to be offset against the pitiful amount paid by property investors.
This is nonsense, GST is paid for by the developer out of the developer profit.
A house sells for the market rate whether it is new or not. Developers could not just increase the price by 10% because of the GST that is just not how the market works.
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993 The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
What are you talking about now? We were addressing the VERY point you raised, and looking at the proportion of the total "tax from housing" that can be attributed to investors/developers etc! Isn't that exactly what you are (now) on about?
You are a very confusing person to debate anything with.
So we have gone from 40 billion from the housing sector!!! Kiss our feet you ungrateful scum.
to
Actually, we think it might be 20 billion but we aren't sure and we cant define the housing sector either.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?
The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly. Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.
Forum Rules:
The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.
Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.
Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.
This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.
Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ
Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy