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The Perth Property Crash Thread; Let us enjoy the inevitable collapse as it unfolds in WA
Topic Started: 13 Aug 2014, 12:28 AM (89,637 Views)
Frank Castle
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Business As Usual

skamy
20 Aug 2014, 02:08 PM
So does Australia unfortunately.

He will probably cop property taxes on his new cheap US home and then lose the lower US income tax rates if he ever does come home
On income?
Are you sure about that?

Quote:
 
The U.S. is the only country that taxes its citizens on their world-wide income, no matter where they live.

OK, there’s also Eritrea. It imposes what is derisively termed a “diaspora tax” on its citizens.

Otherwise, though, the basic rule is that countries impose their taxes on individuals based on their residency, not their citizenship.

The case of Eduardo Saverin, the billionaire Facebook co-founder living in Singapore who recently renounced his U.S. citizenship – and thus his U.S. tax obligation on his future income and gains – has served as a reminder of how different the rules are here
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/05/18/tax-history-why-u-s-pursues-citizens-overseas/
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The forum fuckwit goes RRRAAARRRGGHHhhh - But not a fuck was given..................by anyone.
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stinkbug
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lanie
20 Aug 2014, 11:22 AM


All I can say is - I didn't rack up a 50k uni debt to become a miner or a real estate agent lol or be locked into a rip off house for 25 years unable to move

You guys can keep Perth all to yourselves I'm moving to the US in November yay.

If you think Perth is all there is to Australia, you'll probably fit in quite well in the US.
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While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

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newjez
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lanie
20 Aug 2014, 02:25 PM
Can't wait :) 7 friends already did it and they are loving it. One couples in Houston and ones in californ-I-a :D so we wont be lonely plus were friendly so its not hard to make friends. I have a couple of family members there too. They all love it. Everyone doesn't talk about how much property they have, they have access to much nicer produce and variety.

The job I have lined up shpuld use about 20% of my pay for a house I can get on a 15 year loan hopefully woo. Can prob pay it off in 7. Already saved everything I got while working at uni so 40k is getting me pretty far. I could have used it to pay off my uni fees or leave and keep the money. That's a no brainer.

Two friends both work for chevron so that's cool full Healthcare. I'll be a contractor for them with the same yay

Lol at 'don't let the door hit you on the way out' from people who have made it impossible to succeed without being their slaves. What a big fish little pond mentality. You basically want me to work for you. Design your bridges and roads. Build your infrastructure. But you won't pay me enough to live in the areas that see the fruits of my work.

Thanks but no thanks.

God baby boomers and gen X are a nasty bunch.

Free land free education free houses and grants and tax concessions then the balls to tell everyome under 30 'hey you're working till 70 and wage growth will see you in higher tax brackets plus were taxing your fuel more now that you had to buy further out... ' they make the young ones pay 10 fold and aren't allowed to live anywhere nice. Wow. No wonder so many people I know have left Perth. Especially with a corrupt sniveling little people like Mike haha.


Why do you need to take on US citizenship?
Whenever you have an argument with someone, there comes a moment where you must ask yourself, whatever your political persuasion, 'am I the Nazi?'
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skamy
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Jimbo
20 Aug 2014, 02:28 PM
That is great until you consider that household debt in Australia sits at 1.8 times disposable income. The US is 1.1% and the UK 1.5%.

The thing I never get my head around, is why would you have money in the bank at the same time as having debt?

When I was buying my home, every penny I had went to my mortgage.
People have money in offset accounts, there are distinct advantages to arranging your finances to show higher debt and higher savings.

People misunderstand the household income to debt ratio and they think it means that individuals carry high debt, it does not mean this at all.

It means that Australians have higher numbers of people on wages high enough to support debt, ie it is a more egalitarian country, similar to Scandanavia and New Zealand etc.

The US for example have huge swathes of the population on incomes too low to take out a mortgage and this skews their ratio. Countries like Germany have low levels of home ownership therefore lower levels of debt. Germans pay rents Australians pay interest it amounts to the same thing except that Australians are much richer than most per capita.

First look at debt relative to assets as you can see Australians on aggregate have enough financial assets (not including home equity) to pay off their liabilities 2 times over.
Posted Image

Individual debt levels are low in this country. This is a neat graph from the RBA, that shows a) individual debt to income is low and most higher dept is held by those with higher wealth levels.

Posted Image
Frank Castle
20 Aug 2014, 02:30 PM
On income?
Are you sure about that?

http://www.cgw.com.au/publication/ato-continues-to-focus-on-returning-expatriates/
Quote:
 
The recent case of Pillay v Commissioner of Taxation [2013] AATA 447 is an example of the arguments that the ATO are pursuing to assert that an individual ‘resides’ in Australia for tax purposes. Dr Pillay was held to be a resident of Australia in the 2010, 2011 and 2012 income years, despite living and working in East Timor since 2006. The AAT accepted the ATO’s submission that Dr Pillay had had a ’continuity of association’ with Australia and was therefore a resident for tax purposes. Dr Pillay maintained a house and had bank accounts in Australia.


Unless you sell up everything it is getting harder and harder to prove you are not an Australian resident for tax purposes.
Edited by skamy, 20 Aug 2014, 04:42 PM.
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993
The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
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Massive
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skamy
20 Aug 2014, 04:37 PM
Unless you sell up everything it is getting harder and harder to prove you are not an Australian resident for tax purposes.
i thought you are against scaremongering dear skamy...

anyone unsure of their residency status can simply check online
https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/Residency-status---leaving-Australia/

You are allowed to own property and shares while overseas and still not be a resident of Australia for tax purposes.. You must be diligent to pay taxes on income generated from those at non-resident rates each financial year. Likewise if you visit Australia every other month, etc it might be difficult too.
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miw
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Massive
20 Aug 2014, 05:05 PM
i thought you are against scaremongering dear skamy...

anyone unsure of their residency status can simply check online
https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/Residency-status---leaving-Australia/

You are allowed to own property and shares while overseas and still not be a resident of Australia for tax purposes.. You must be diligent to pay taxes on income generated from those at non-resident rates each financial year. Likewise if you visit Australia every other month, etc it might be difficult too.
Indeed. In my personal situation I would probably be slightly better off if I were an Australian resident for tax purposes, and I in fact held onto it for about three years after I moved to China but then I got kicked out!

Owning shares in oz is a PITA if you are a foreign resident, what with the extra reporting and withholding taxes. But it can be done and it has no impact on your residency.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
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Massive
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miw
20 Aug 2014, 05:10 PM
Owning shares in oz is a PITA if you are a foreign resident, what with the extra reporting and withholding taxes. But it can be done and it has no impact on your residency.
My understanding is if you don't purchase shares that pay dividends its simply reporting in capital gains or loss and filing the paperwork at the end of financial year / paying the tax ...

i can imagine dividend payments could be a bit more of a PITA ..
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miw
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Massive
20 Aug 2014, 05:17 PM
My understanding is if you don't purchase shares that pay dividends its simply reporting in capital gains or loss and filing the paperwork at the end of financial year / paying the tax ...

i can imagine dividend payments could be a bit more of a PITA ..
Exactly correct, as far as I have ascertained. You also have to hold your shares in a brokerage account specifically for non-residents which means you can't just buy them in a NAB brokerage account attached to your normal banking. I did look up which brokerages offer such accounts but it was a long time ago and I forget. I will exit the US stock market and enter the Australian stock market when I re-attain Australian residency.

Back in the day it was all prompted by me buying a bunch of shares in UECOMM imn my bank brokerage account and selling them about 18 months later when Optus bought out UECOMM. My tax accountant had conniptions at that. Tax paid was completely unaffected, but my ownership of the shares was irregular.

BTW whenever I use that tool it comes back with "unable to determine residency status". Based on the fact that the ATO terminated my residency status in the third year of my being away, I think they thought that the "length of stay" factor had weight.
Edited by miw, 20 Aug 2014, 05:35 PM.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
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Massive
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miw
20 Aug 2014, 05:25 PM
Exactly correct, as far as I have ascertained. You also have to hold your shares in a brokerage account specifically for non-residents which means you can't just buy them in a NAB brokerage account attached to your normal banking. I did look up which brokerages offer such accounts but it was a long time ago and I forget. I will exit the US stock market and enter the Australian stock market when I re-attain Australian residency.
hmmm... this is something i did not know...
I had thought those brokers were purely to avoid paying CGT on shares to ATO period...

time to check-in with the accountant...

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miw
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Massive
20 Aug 2014, 05:37 PM
hmmm... this is something i did not know...
I had thought those brokers were purely to avoid paying CGT on shares to ATO period...

time to check-in with the accountant...
Yeah. Things may have changed since then (10 years ago) or I may have misunderstood my accountant's conniption.

I would be interested to know what you come up with.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
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