Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Reply
Israel’s Assault on Gaza a 'Hideous Atrocity'
Topic Started: 11 Aug 2014, 07:47 AM (4,262 Views)
Veritas
Default APF Avatar


Chris
11 Aug 2014, 06:21 PM
Agreed Doc, I am no expert so I try to keep my views to myself for the best part. I do however get a bit strange about others who have a one dimensional view of such complexed matters and are by extension of that puppets in a very messy conflict.

One day, maybe not to far from now these issues will find their way closer to home for BP and then he will understand the situation in Gaza a little better.





I am not saying you don't have compassion, you clearly care about the innocent being caught up in a situation they are trapped and unable avoid, you would not be human if you didn't. Do you truly believe that I do not care about the civilian casualties in Gaza?

What I am asking you to do is open your mind beyond a one dimensional conflict, explore the origins of Hamas the impact they have had in Gaza and there roll in this conflict and then you may start to understand why your comments are, for the best part, misguided.
What does it matter?

I could know Hamas inside out, it wouldn't change the fact that murdering innocent children in their beds is wrong.

And that's what the IDF have done.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Chris
Default APF Avatar


Veritas
11 Aug 2014, 06:39 PM
What does it matter?

I could know Hamas inside out, it wouldn't change the fact that murdering innocent children in their beds is wrong.

And that's what the IDF have done.


Veritas, your view is limited and I believe wrong but I'll leave it at that.

I edited the post because I realised it was hypocritical to offer further opinion either way given I got on my soap box and denounced others sharing an opinion. I will take Peters advice and leave the regulating of the site and it's contents to those who are much better at it than I.

To be clear though I wasn't taking sides or saying that one side is to blame etc. what I was saying is their are always two sides and that it feels as though we are not always fed the entire story on most major issues globally.
Edited by Chris, 11 Aug 2014, 08:30 PM.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Gossamer
Member Avatar
44th most prolific poster on APF

Common sense is a curse - those who have it need to suffer dealing with those who don't have it.

APF idiot list
Nelson
Black Panther
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Foxy
Member Avatar
Zero is coming...

Ape should not kill ape.

:(

Peter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS2-4i3UAMw
http://www.afr.com/content/dam/images/g/n/2/1/u/8/image.imgtype.afrArticleInline.620x0.png/1456285515560.png
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
sylvester
Default APF Avatar


Veritas
11 Aug 2014, 06:39 PM
What does it matter?

I could know Hamas inside out, it wouldn't change the fact that murdering innocent children in their beds is wrong.

And that's what the IDF have done.
Do you realise that Hamas fires rockets, not from military bases but from hospitals, schools and UN buildings? And do you know why they do this? Because they know that when Israel retaliates, then there will be some unavoidable civilian casualties. Hamas hides behind women and children and uses the sympathy from the western world for their cause. They themselves don't give a damn how many Palestinians are killed for their cause. And do you know what their cause is? Their raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel.

Another thing - Hamas lies about the number of civilians killed anyway. Of course there are civilian deaths but don't believe their numbers. http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4585/hamas-phony-statistics-on-civilian-deaths

Ok, so now I hear you ask, why aren't there nearly as many Israeli deaths? After years of rockets hammering Israel, they have come up with the iron dome which intercepts rockets and has saved thousands of people. And of course there are bomb shelters everywhere. Israelis have had to learn to be on the lookout, and ready for anything.

Hamas is a known terrorist organisation. The IDF is there to protect Israelis.

Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Veritas
Default APF Avatar


sylvester
11 Aug 2014, 11:45 PM
Do you realise that Hamas fires rockets, not from military bases but from hospitals, schools and UN buildings? And do you know why they do this? Because they know that when Israel retaliates, then there will be some unavoidable civilian casualties. Hamas hides behind women and children and uses the sympathy from the western world for their cause. They themselves don't give a damn how many Palestinians are killed for their cause. And do you know what their cause is? Their raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel.

Another thing - Hamas lies about the number of civilians killed anyway. Of course there are civilian deaths but don't believe their numbers. http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4585/hamas-phony-statistics-on-civilian-deaths

Ok, so now I hear you ask, why aren't there nearly as many Israeli deaths? After years of rockets hammering Israel, they have come up with the iron dome which intercepts rockets and has saved thousands of people. And of course there are bomb shelters everywhere. Israelis have had to learn to be on the lookout, and ready for anything.

Hamas is a known terrorist organisation. The IDF is there to protect Israelis.
Yeah I know that. The nature of Hamas is irrelevant. This is particularly true seeing as it does not pose a military threat to Israel. We know this from the vast inequality in the death toll on the respective sides.

Throughout the most recent conflict the following has happened:

1. The IDF bombs areas densely populated with innocent civilians.
2. These attacks lead to civilian deaths.
3. They do the same thing the next day knowing that;
4. They will kill more civilians
5. Even more civilians are killed, maimed and displaced.

Ergo, Israel is willfully killing civilians and has killed almost 1000 children in this latest assault on Gaza.

Care to justify the willful murder of 1000 children?

Please tell me what greater good has been achieved? Have Hamas been defeated? Israel made safer?

Mad men are now running Israel.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
sylvester
Default APF Avatar


Veritas
11 Aug 2014, 11:57 PM
Yeah I know that. The nature of Hamas is irrelevant. This is particularly true seeing as it does not pose a military threat to Israel. We know this from the vast inequality in the death toll on the respective sides.

Throughout the most recent conflict the following has happened:

1. The IDF bombs areas densely populated with innocent civilians.
2. These attacks lead to civilian deaths.
3. They do the same thing the next day knowing that;
4. They will kill more civilians
5. Even more civilians are killed, maimed and displaced.

Ergo, Israel is willfully killing civilians and has killed almost 1000 children in this latest assault on Gaza.

Care to justify the willful murder of 1000 children?

Please tell me what greater good has been achieved? Have Hamas been defeated? Israel made safer?

Mad men are now running Israel.
I think I answered you in my previous post.

And if you read the article I linked you might have seen this: "Data published by the New York Times strongly suggest that a very large number—perhaps a majority—of those killed are closer to the combatant end of the continuum than to the civilian end. First of all, the vast majority of those killed have been male rather than female. In an Islamic society, males are far more likely to be combatants than females. Second, most of those killed are within the age range (15-40) that are likely to be combatants. The vast majority of these are male as well. The number of people over 60 who have been killed is infinitesimal. The number of children below the age of 15 is also relatively small, although their pictures have been shown more frequently than others. In other words, the genders and ages of those killed are not representative of the general population of Gaza. It is far more representative of the genders and ages of combatants. These data strongly suggest that a very large percentage of Palestinians killed are on the combatant side of the continuum.

They also prove, as if any proof were necessary to unbiased eyes, that Israel did not target civilians randomly. If it had, the dead would be representative of the Gaza population in general, rather than of the subgroups most closely identified with combatants."

By the way, there has not been anywhere near 1,000 children killed, and this, despite Hamas using children as shields which they hide behind.

As for what greater good? As mentioned before, Israel tries to limit civilian casualties but tell me, what would you do? Imagine thousands of rockets firing into your neighbourhood, with the intent of killing you and everyone surrounding you. Wouldn't you fight back? But those who are firing the rockets are doing so from hospitals and schools. So what then? Just let them keep firing rockets in case you hurt a child in retaliation? Are you really saying you would do nothing to defend yourself in this instance?

Israel is the only country which is condemned for defending herself. No other country is treated like this.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Chris
Default APF Avatar


Veritas
11 Aug 2014, 11:57 PM
Yeah I know that. The nature of Hamas is irrelevant. This is particularly true seeing as it does not pose a military threat to Israel. We know this from the vast inequality in the death toll on the respective sides.

Throughout the most recent conflict the following has happened:

1. The IDF bombs areas densely populated with innocent civilians.
2. These attacks lead to civilian deaths.
3. They do the same thing the next day knowing that;
4. They will kill more civilians
5. Even more civilians are killed, maimed and displaced.

Ergo, Israel is willfully killing civilians and has killed almost 1000 children in this latest assault on Gaza.

Care to justify the willful murder of 1000 children?

Please tell me what greater good has been achieved? Have Hamas been defeated? Israel made safer?

Mad men are now running Israel.
Veritas, you acknowledge everything Sylvester stated as the truth but you say it's irrelevant?!

Your have just highlighted how ignorant you are, or how biased, I'm not sure which one but I guess it's irrelevant anyway.







sylvester
12 Aug 2014, 01:02 AM
I think I answered you in my previous post.

And if you read the article I linked you might have seen this: "Data published by the New York Times strongly suggest that a very large number—perhaps a majority—of those killed are closer to the combatant end of the continuum than to the civilian end. First of all, the vast majority of those killed have been male rather than female. In an Islamic society, males are far more likely to be combatants than females. Second, most of those killed are within the age range (15-40) that are likely to be combatants. The vast majority of these are male as well. The number of people over 60 who have been killed is infinitesimal. The number of children below the age of 15 is also relatively small, although their pictures have been shown more frequently than others. In other words, the genders and ages of those killed are not representative of the general population of Gaza. It is far more representative of the genders and ages of combatants. These data strongly suggest that a very large percentage of Palestinians killed are on the combatant side of the continuum.

They also prove, as if any proof were necessary to unbiased eyes, that Israel did not target civilians randomly. If it had, the dead would be representative of the Gaza population in general, rather than of the subgroups most closely identified with combatants."

By the way, there has not been anywhere near 1,000 children killed, and this, despite Hamas using children as shields which they hide behind.

As for what greater good? As mentioned before, Israel tries to limit civilian casualties but tell me, what would you do? Imagine thousands of rockets firing into your neighbourhood, with the intent of killing you and everyone surrounding you. Wouldn't you fight back? But those who are firing the rockets are doing so from hospitals and schools. So what then? Just let them keep firing rockets in case you hurt a child in retaliation? Are you really saying you would do nothing to defend yourself in this instance?

Israel is the only country which is condemned for defending herself. No other country is treated like this.
+1

You have articulated it well Sylvester but I am afraid it will fall on the deaf ears of the biased.

Edited by Chris, 12 Aug 2014, 01:29 AM.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
skamy
Member Avatar


sylvester
12 Aug 2014, 01:02 AM
I think I answered you in my previous post.

And if you read the article I linked you might have seen this: "Data published by the New York Times strongly suggest that a very large number—perhaps a majority—of those killed are closer to the combatant end of the continuum than to the civilian end. First of all, the vast majority of those killed have been male rather than female. In an Islamic society, males are far more likely to be combatants than females. Second, most of those killed are within the age range (15-40) that are likely to be combatants. The vast majority of these are male as well. The number of people over 60 who have been killed is infinitesimal. The number of children below the age of 15 is also relatively small, although their pictures have been shown more frequently than others. In other words, the genders and ages of those killed are not representative of the general population of Gaza. It is far more representative of the genders and ages of combatants. These data strongly suggest that a very large percentage of Palestinians killed are on the combatant side of the continuum.

They also prove, as if any proof were necessary to unbiased eyes, that Israel did not target civilians randomly. If it had, the dead would be representative of the Gaza population in general, rather than of the subgroups most closely identified with combatants."

By the way, there has not been anywhere near 1,000 children killed, and this, despite Hamas using children as shields which they hide behind.

As for what greater good? As mentioned before, Israel tries to limit civilian casualties but tell me, what would you do? Imagine thousands of rockets firing into your neighbourhood, with the intent of killing you and everyone surrounding you. Wouldn't you fight back? But those who are firing the rockets are doing so from hospitals and schools. So what then? Just let them keep firing rockets in case you hurt a child in retaliation? Are you really saying you would do nothing to defend yourself in this instance?

Israel is the only country which is condemned for defending herself. No other country is treated like this.
There is huge opposition among Jewish people too.

This is not about defence. We cannot as civilised people accept this behaviour as legitimate defence. This is not about religion nor about Israel's right to exist. It is about what behaviour we deem acceptable by leaders inthe world

There is NO legitimate excuse for the massacre that has just occurred. NONE

Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993
The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
van
Member Avatar


Posted Image

Israel is just defending itself.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Learn More · Register for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Australian Property Forum · Next Topic »
Reply



Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.

Forum Rules: The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.

Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.

Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.

This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.

For more information go to Limitations on Exclusive Rights: Fair Use

Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ

Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy