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No Gunna a non-resident can't get a loan to buy a house without FIRB approval
Topic Started: 7 Aug 2014, 08:52 AM (3,069 Views)
peter fraser
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Strindberg
7 Aug 2014, 10:55 AM
It is quite easy with just a birth certificate and drivers licence to meet the identity requirements for getting a loan.

So someone with an Australian issued birth certificate and an Australian issued drivers isn't an Australian citizen?

I'm sure that you will now go through some contorted explanation of what may have happened to prove me wrong, but it's important to remember that the discussion was about Chinese nationals buying homes in Australia without FIRB approval and getting loans from Australian banks to fund the purchase.

Now how many Chinese national do you know with an Australian birth certificate and an Australian drivers licence?

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Permanent residents are foreign nationals and do not even have to hold a current passport from any nation.


If they can't prove they have residency status they are aliens.

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The following statement of yours from the OP is, I repeat, false:
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Any foreign national in Australia will have a passport and if they hold a Visa it is stamped into their passport with the Visa type clearly marked, so it's not hard to see who needs FIRB approval and who doesn't.


Yes you made that pedantic point above which I conceded. If it's not in their passport then they need to produce an official letter or document confirming their status. It doesn't actually change anything does it.

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Very many permanent resident foreign nationals have no passport at all. Passports are only required for leaving and re-entering Australia. Australia policy is anyway now visa label-free.
http://www.immi.gov.au/Help/Pages/Visa-Labels.aspx


Who cares, they still must have residency status to and buy here. If they front the bank showing that they already own property here and work here the bank would probably accept a drivers licence, Medicare card and their rates notice and leave it at that and regard them as permanent residents.



Strindberg
7 Aug 2014, 11:21 AM
...anyway, I see that gunna has comprehensively destroyed Fraser's assertions with quotes from the AFR, echoice, St George Bank, AAAFinancial etc:
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/08/short-memories-on-asian-property-plunge/#comment-509049
Actually I provided a link to Gunna's statement in my initial post.

My statement was "It’s possible for a non-resident to get a loan but not without FIRB approval where it is required."

Note that I was referring to Australian banks.

Now do you or Gunna have evidence to the contrary?
Edited by peter fraser, 7 Aug 2014, 11:32 AM.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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Dam
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peter fraser
7 Aug 2014, 11:25 AM
If they front the bank showing that they already own property here
I doubt many are knocking at our banks doors are there are much cheaper loans overseas, like 1.5% at Singapore, which make any investment here an absolute killer deal.
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Strindberg
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Strindberg
7 Aug 2014, 10:55 AM
I fail to see how the 100 point id system for loans establishes or is even intended to establish residency status. It is surely intended to establish identity rather than status. Where is the law/regulation requiring banks to establish residency status before lending? Did you make it up?


bump for Peter Fraser
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peter fraser
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Strindberg
7 Aug 2014, 11:56 AM
bump for Peter Fraser
Well there are many things that are not obvious to everyone.

Here is a cut and paste from the relevant sections of CBA lending policy:-

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Residency Status

Australian Citizens
Where the borrower resides at an overseas residential address then the residency status is to be determined by checking the passport to ensure the customer is an Australian citizen. Alternatively, the customer must provide a valid Australian Birth Certificate or Australian Citizenship Certificate. Residents of Norfolk Island, Cocos Island and Christmas Island are classed as residents of Australia.

Australian Permanent Residents and Temporary Australian Residents
Under Australian immigration laws, all permanent and temporary Australian residents must hold an approved visa as defined by the Australian Immigration department. Permanent and temporary Australian resident visas can be verified on the applicant’s passport with the following comments;
Permanent resident passports are stamped as follows “Holder(s) permitted to remain in Australia indefinitely”
Temporary resident passports are stamped as follows “Holder(s) permitted to remain in Australia until [expiry date]”
or
A copy of the customer's original passport and electronic visa (e-visa)


and on the FIRB issue:-

Quote:
 
Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB) Approval

Under Australian foreign investment law, overseas citizens (without permanent Australian residency) must gain prior approval before owning real estate in Australia. A copy of the approval is to be obtained prior to documents and submitted as part of the application supporting documentation.
Further details about FIRB requirements can be obtained from the FIRB website – http://www.firb.gov.au/content/default.asp
Please refer to the Eligible Borrowers Matrix



Edited by peter fraser, 7 Aug 2014, 12:57 PM.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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miw
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Having bought several properties as a non-resident, The only people interested in my residency status were the banks. But I don't think any of the banks I have borrowed from have ever seen my passport. I have had to sign declarations as to my citizenship and residency status. But then I gave them 100 points of ID back in the 1980s.

I do however find it hard to believe that a foreign national who would be depending on a passport for ID could get a loan for a property that required FIRB approval without such approval being in place.

However, I am pretty sure that if you were buying on a cash basis you could do it no worries. I never told my conveyencer anything about my residency or citizenship status. I am sure he knew, but if he can get things through without documentary evidence, one that wants to game the system certainly could.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
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peter fraser
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miw
7 Aug 2014, 03:29 PM
However, I am pretty sure that if you were buying on a cash basis you could do it no worries. I never told my conveyencer anything about my residency or citizenship status. I am sure he knew, but if he can get things through without documentary evidence, one that wants to game the system certainly could.
That's possible, if a buyer wanted to and they had cash a solicitor may not check. However given that it's a solicitors duty to protect their client from any risk I would consider them derelict in their duties by not getting what is really quite easy and that is FIRB approval. I've never seen them say no and I have even seen them grant concessional approval after a contract was signed.

On that occasion the lender pulled out because the FIRB approval was not in place at the application stage and there was no clause in the contract "subject to FIRB etc" to fall back on.

I'm very conscious of the strict requirements of lenders on this point because I have wasted a lot of time on a few occasions where it was discovered late that FIRB approval was required. On each occasion the deal was aborted by the lender.



Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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Special fried rise with porns
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what dose this mean?

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/08/short-memories-on-asian-property-plunge/#comment-510236

I just assume that between the tropical vibrancy of the sunshine on a Queensland morning and the presumed psychotropics that one assumes Peter must take to maintain that steady stream of pro property spruiking invective speciousness and barefaced lies there has been an upping of the dose ……..… it wouldn’t surprise me if Peter claimed there was a mutant star goat with bright green eyes and asteroids sallying forth from its nose to defend Australia from loan applicants without FIRB approval, same as he once argued that every last part of the property transaction process was so imbued with the Hitler Youth style alertness about non resident buyers that there wouldn’t be a hope in hell of anyone ever managing to buy Australian real estate without approval, and that was before he crafted the impression that the Austrac boys spend their spare time flagellating themselves with razor sharp ribbon wire to get into just the right mental state as to detect and obliterate any significant transactions coming into or out of the Australian banking world (notwithstanding my own personal experience that a person can in fact move hundreds of thousands of dollars in or out without ever having a question asked – and when I asked my own bank about it I got a sort of quizzical ‘huh? Why would they do that?’ response).

Peter is talking about alternative realities. . Note to self…..When Peter talks about alternative realities, I, for one, am a man inclined to pay some sort of attention ,for I am fairly sure that Peter knows a fair bit about them and creating them. Indeed I believe that one of Peters alternative worlds is the Australian property forum where lots and lots of posts from other sites, including MB are posted under a different guise specifically to create an alternative reality. Then, to add to that alternative reality I am very reliably told that specific comments from specific posters are indeed duplicated so as to populate that alternative reality with alternative people, and that Peter spends significant time posting there and engaging with them. As proof of my theory I am of the view that a quick search through the Australian property forum for the word ‘Barista’ will in fact reveal that someone has thought enough of posts made by me here to duplicate them over there under that particular pseudonym. It is weird, I grant you, but as long as it keeps someone entertained I suppose it is all in a good cause, and if it helps people like Peter fill in their alternative world then I suppose it helps in some small way. Of course it does add to the suspicion that everything Peter says or does here is basically pitched at either selling real estate to someone (or getting a margin from such) or populating his alternate world and richly filling it with complexity and characters which may seem quite lifelike for some…….
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miw
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peter fraser
7 Aug 2014, 05:37 PM
That's possible, if a buyer wanted to and they had cash a solicitor may not check. However given that it's a solicitors duty to protect their client from any risk I would consider them derelict in their duties by not getting what is really quite easy and that is FIRB approval. I've never seen them say no and I have even seen them grant concessional approval after a contract was signed.
Maybe if the conveyencer were a solicitor. In general my conveyancers have not been solicitors though. They are hacks who are good at getting documents processed and getting searches done.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
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peter fraser
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Special fried rise with porns
7 Aug 2014, 06:53 PM
what dose this mean?

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/08/short-memories-on-asian-property-plunge/#comment-510236

I just assume that between the tropical vibrancy of the sunshine on a Queensland morning and the presumed psychotropics that one assumes Peter must take to maintain that steady stream of pro property spruiking invective speciousness and barefaced lies there has been an upping of the dose ……..… it wouldn’t surprise me if Peter claimed there was a mutant star goat with bright green eyes and asteroids sallying forth from its nose to defend Australia from loan applicants without FIRB approval, same as he once argued that every last part of the property transaction process was so imbued with the Hitler Youth style alertness about non resident buyers that there wouldn’t be a hope in hell of anyone ever managing to buy Australian real estate without approval, and that was before he crafted the impression that the Austrac boys spend their spare time flagellating themselves with razor sharp ribbon wire to get into just the right mental state as to detect and obliterate any significant transactions coming into or out of the Australian banking world (notwithstanding my own personal experience that a person can in fact move hundreds of thousands of dollars in or out without ever having a question asked – and when I asked my own bank about it I got a sort of quizzical ‘huh? Why would they do that?’ response).

Peter is talking about alternative realities. . Note to self…..When Peter talks about alternative realities, I, for one, am a man inclined to pay some sort of attention ,for I am fairly sure that Peter knows a fair bit about them and creating them. Indeed I believe that one of Peters alternative worlds is the Australian property forum where lots and lots of posts from other sites, including MB are posted under a different guise specifically to create an alternative reality. Then, to add to that alternative reality I am very reliably told that specific comments from specific posters are indeed duplicated so as to populate that alternative reality with alternative people, and that Peter spends significant time posting there and engaging with them. As proof of my theory I am of the view that a quick search through the Australian property forum for the word ‘Barista’ will in fact reveal that someone has thought enough of posts made by me here to duplicate them over there under that particular pseudonym. It is weird, I grant you, but as long as it keeps someone entertained I suppose it is all in a good cause, and if it helps people like Peter fill in their alternative world then I suppose it helps in some small way. Of course it does add to the suspicion that everything Peter says or does here is basically pitched at either selling real estate to someone (or getting a margin from such) or populating his alternate world and richly filling it with complexity and characters which may seem quite lifelike for some…….
It beats me what gunna is talking about. Certainly he didn't address the issue.

It reads as though it was chemically inspired to put pen to paper and then forgot what he had to say, so out it rambled like old nails falling out of a rusty can. Journalists are a funny lot though. I once had to say no to a journo for the Rural News when he wanted some money for a Dubosia farm so he wrote an article on me without mentioning my name.

He managed to call me a "snot in the nostrils of commerce" and a "toad in the pool of something or other" in the same paragraph. It was creative writing at it's finest - well it was the best that he could do anyway.

I'm sure that gunna is capable of better on a lucid day.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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those
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I jointly purchased my house with my wife in 2007 and also jointly enterred the mortgage. I'm pretty sure I was a temporary resident at the time while my wife was a citizen. I would have had a local driver's license.

I'm pretty sure the residency question only played a part because my wife had to produce her citizenship certificate to get the first home buyers grant and i remember i didnt qualify for the grant on my own.

The bank wouldn't have lent to my wife on her own and i made no effort to hide my residency status.
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