Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 7
  • 14
First home buyers could soon use superannuation to buy property; Nick Xenophon will introduce legislative changes in the spring session of parliament
Topic Started: 28 Jul 2014, 05:33 PM (16,486 Views)
herbie
Member Avatar


Jimbo
1 Aug 2014, 05:28 PM
... when an affordable property comes on the market, some FIFO would be property magnate snaps it up and adds it to his portfolio ...
Then up stakes 'n go 'n work a FIFO job 'n compete for mine Jimbo - Rather than sit around in the city whinging about how you can't compete - For mine.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Jimbo
Member Avatar


herbie
1 Aug 2014, 06:22 PM
Then up stakes 'n go 'n work a FIFO job 'n compete for mine Jimbo - Rather than sit around in the city whinging about how you can't compete - For mine.
I do some FIFO, some city based work. I could buy investment property if I wanted to. I just don't like to have all of my eggs in one basket. Property investment is a Ponzi scheme anyway. It requires price rises above CPI and wage inflation over the long term in order to generate capital gain. It therefore requires greater multiples of income to be borrowed by FHO's to pay out the retiring investors.
Your pension plan becomes someone elses millstone.
I have some capital invested in a productive business that creates real jobs and makes a positive contribution to the economy. You have a house/houses that generate rent and capital gain for yourself. Your "investment" performs no useful function within the wider economy (other than providing a home for someone who you priced out of the market with speculative buying).
Matthew, 30 Jan 2016, 09:21 AM Your simplistic view is so flawed it is not worth debating. The current oversupply will be swallowed in 12 months. By the time dumb shits like you realise this prices will already be :?: rising.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
herbie
Member Avatar


Jimbo
1 Aug 2014, 08:43 PM
I do some FIFO, some city based work.
That's nice - You get to have a little holiday occasionally away from the city 'n the missus 'n the kids - As opposed to experiencing the FIFO lifestyle in all its 'glory' over years 'n even decades ... Lucky you.
Jimbo
1 Aug 2014, 08:43 PM
Your "investment" performs no useful function within the wider economy (other than providing a home for someone who you priced out of the market with speculative buying).
I've bought all (bar one) of my houses with cash - Do the same 'n I just might be inclined to contemplate the possibility you aren't a whinging, whining city bound cry baby?
Edited by herbie, 1 Aug 2014, 10:05 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Jimbo
Member Avatar


herbie
1 Aug 2014, 09:54 PM
That's nice - You get to have a little holiday occasionally away from the city 'n the missus 'n the kids - As opposed to experiencing the FIFO lifestyle in all its 'glory' over years 'n even decades ... Lucky you.

I've bought (all bar one) of my houses with cash - Do the same 'n I just might be inclined to contemplate the possibility you aren't a whinging, whining city bound cry baby?
My job requires me to do a lot of preliminary work in the city and ends up with me on site for 6 to 12 months during implementation (not all FIFO wash dishes or drive haul packs).
I have investments but property is not one of them.
I could buy an investment property in the morning with cash. I choose not to because it is a dumb money investment class.
I have had "conversations" with people on site who own investment property and have no idea how NG or CGT discounts work "my accountant deals with that shit".
Dumb money chased silver to $40 and Tulips to infinity. Dumb money is chasing Australian property.
Matthew, 30 Jan 2016, 09:21 AM Your simplistic view is so flawed it is not worth debating. The current oversupply will be swallowed in 12 months. By the time dumb shits like you realise this prices will already be :?: rising.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
herbie
Member Avatar


Jimbo
1 Aug 2014, 10:18 PM
My job requires me to do a lot of preliminary work in the city and ends up with me on site for 6 to 12 months during implementation (not all FIFO wash dishes or drive haul packs).
I have investments but property is not one of them.
I could buy an investment property in the morning with cash. I choose not to because it is a dumb money investment class.
I have had "conversations" with people on site who own investment property and have no idea how NG or CGT discounts work "my accountant deals with that shit".
Dumb money chased silver to $40 and Tulips to infinity. Dumb money is chasing Australian property.
As I've said before, I'm 50% housing/50% cash - No debt 'n eff shares.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Jimbo
Member Avatar


herbie
1 Aug 2014, 10:28 PM
As I've said before, I'm 50% housing/50% cash - No debt 'n eff shares.
Fair do's.

Maybe you bought property a few years ago and you have a capital gain (albeit tied up in property). If you sell now you realise your gain.

If you bought silver at $20 an ounce and sold at $40 you made a killing.

If you bought silver at $40 an ounce believing the hype that it would go up forever, you lost a lot of money.

If you bought silver at $20 an ounce and rode the market up to $40 and back down again, you made nothing.

Buy low and sell high. Simple rule, all you have to do is decide when is low and when is high.

My when is high was last month. I sold.

Matthew, 30 Jan 2016, 09:21 AM Your simplistic view is so flawed it is not worth debating. The current oversupply will be swallowed in 12 months. By the time dumb shits like you realise this prices will already be :?: rising.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
stinkbug
Member Avatar


Jimbo
1 Aug 2014, 10:51 PM
Fair do's.

Maybe you bought property a few years ago and you have a capital gain (albeit tied up in property). If you sell now you realise your gain.

If you bought silver at $20 an ounce and sold at $40 you made a killing.

If you bought silver at $40 an ounce believing the hype that it would go up forever, you lost a lot of money.

If you bought silver at $20 an ounce and rode the market up to $40 and back down again, you made nothing.

Buy low and sell high. Simple rule, all you have to do is decide when is low and when is high.

My when is high was last month. I sold.
This is one strategy and, if you can make it work, a reasonable one.

Another is to purchase an asset with borrowed funds, use the yield to pay off the loan over time, and then own the asset outright while enjoying the ongoing yield.

Personally, I think the second is much lower risk over the longer term. What are your thoughts on this?
---------------------------------------------------------------

While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Jimbo
Member Avatar


stinkbug
1 Aug 2014, 10:57 PM
This is one strategy and, if you can make it work, a reasonable one.

Another is to purchase an asset with borrowed funds, use the yield to pay off the loan over time, and then own the asset outright while enjoying the ongoing yield.

Personally, I think the second is much lower risk over the longer term. What are your thoughts on this?
Great if you get in early.
Consider the following
Economy doing really well and starts to attract larger numbers of migrants.
Rental market gets very tight.
Investors buy property to satisfy rental demand.
Competition amongst renters pushes up rents.
Seeing the increase in rental yields, more investors buy.
This increased buying activity pushes up prices.
This increases the equity of existing investors and reinforces the idea that property always rises in value and is a good investment.
More investors buy and prices rise higher.
Prices get beyond the level of affordability of FHO's so government intervenes with grants.
Grants push up prices further.
More investors pile into this fail safe positive feedback loop investment.

Then, economy slows a bit.
Fewer migrants, less competition for rentals, falling rental yields, increasing vacancy rates.
Market begins to stagnate.
Investors who bought early and have high equity, decide to sell at the peak.
FHO's and potential investors decide to hold off from buying and wait and see what the market does.
Slowing market and increasing rental vacancies panic over leveraged investors to cut their losses.
Crash bang wallop. Ireland, Spain, USA blah blah blah.

Of course, Australian property is different.
Matthew, 30 Jan 2016, 09:21 AM Your simplistic view is so flawed it is not worth debating. The current oversupply will be swallowed in 12 months. By the time dumb shits like you realise this prices will already be :?: rising.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
stinkbug
Member Avatar


Jimbo
1 Aug 2014, 11:18 PM


Of course, Australian property is different.
I understand you think property is expensive, but what are your thoughts on the alternate strategy I presented above.

Bear in mind that time is your friend in that inflation pushes nominal prices and rents up, and pushes the real value of debts down.

If you never plan to sell your properties, but simply own them outright and collect rent, are medium term price fluctuations a problem? Consider too that well bought property provides you with an upgrade path (reno, redevelopment, etc), whereas shares and commodities don't.

Your thoughts?
---------------------------------------------------------------

While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
skamy
Member Avatar


Massive
30 Jul 2014, 02:28 PM
I'm more cynical .. Believe these senators know exactly what they are proposing - directing more available capital towards property - under the guise of being sympathetic to fhb ..

All pollies know making life easier for fhb pretty much entails limiting capital gains on their own properties.. It's the one vested interest pollies will never be called up on as having bias towards as u can't ask them to go without property .. So instead they devise schemes to help current crop of fhb right now that will also help their own asset appreciation and kick the can down the road regarding consequences of said policy .... ( ie. lower affordability )

It's probably the way it will continue to play out as long as it can be
In complete agreement here. I think they need to get the property market going and fend off the increasing demand for public housing so it saves them if they let people use their retirement savings rather than being a drain on the public purse. Adelaide in particular is short of homes and rents are inflating as people are not building new homes.

Problem is it is so short term.

It definitely has big potential as an idea to kick start the economy and get the recovery moving along at a faster pace as it will benefit home owners who will have a bit more to spend and to borrow if values increase. However dressing it up as helping new home buyers is a disgrace.


Robert
30 Jul 2014, 02:41 PM
Unaffordable property is at the crux of most of our problems here in Oz.

Only the fucking parasites benefit from unaffordable housing and we have let this game go on for way too long. Far too late for an orderly wind down.

Which is why recessions are a very natural part of the business cycle – the pause that refreshes!

Us Australians without a natural clearing event for coming up to 23 years means we live in la de da fairy land where reality has been replaced by our own version of the great ‘Rent-Seekers’ paradise.

Too late for a non-seismic re-adjustment we have allowed this thing to distort practically everything here in Australia.

So screw all the vested interests (they have been screwing us all for way too long) – let us have a good old fashioned rollicking recession. There is really no alternative left.

I have been around a long time and have lived through my fill of recessions – still fine after all that and guess what – they taught me quite a few lessons to boot.

About time we all got some new life skills – how to behave and act when the shit hits the fan.

Coming to a town near you soon.
This is really naive. Recessions are dreadful for young people and a boon for cash rich people. Have you seen what happened in Ireland and Spain? Young new home owners lost their jobs and their homes, people committed suicide for heavens sakes.
Rich people just bunker down and buy up cheap and wait for the good times to roll in again.

Sitting around waiting for a recession in the hopes that it will wipe out inequities or address injustice is just a neat way to avoid doing anything about these issues.

The truth is recessions entrench and increase inequity.
Edited by skamy, 2 Aug 2014, 12:17 AM.
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993
The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Enjoy forums? Start your own community for free.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Australian Property Forum · Next Topic »
Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 7
  • 14



Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.

Forum Rules: The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.

Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.

Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.

This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.

For more information go to Limitations on Exclusive Rights: Fair Use

Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ

Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy