It's argued that a survey is a more accurate way of estimating employment/ue. People may not qualify for the dole but be unemployed and actively looking for work. One counter argument is that the survey is BS because of it's definition of employment (ie if one works more than an hour a week they're employed).
The govt does publish the actual stats on people receiving the dole online. I found it once, but have not been able to find it since - would seem it's not something people google much so doesn't come up in search results. If you're search skills are better than mine I wouldn't mind you sharing it if you can find it.
Ted, UE figures are not based on whether people are receiving the dole.
Well you tell me what is a better wage to guage unemployment figures than by going off the number of people that are unemployed. This is the joke zaph, that these figures are just estimates , just bullshit.
So you can believe whatever bs you like zaph, but like I said, if these jokes were not in place, the REAL figures would be closer to double.
Can anybody at all point me to any real actual jobs gains taking place, not just some made up estimate. I want to see the companies that are employing all these people they tell me. What I can show you all VERY, VERY, VERY clearly is all the thousands of actual real jobs losses in the job loss thread.
SHOW me the real job gains, not the compete bullshit that is made up and portrayed by vested interests.
See here is the main difference, I can show you all REAL jobs losses, but NOBODY can show many any REAL jobs gains, and I mean in numbers that in anyway counter the job losses.
Can anybody at all point me to any real actual jobs gains taking place, not just some made up estimate. I want to see the companies that are employing all these people they tell me. What I can show you all VERY, VERY, VERY clearly is all the thousands of actual real jobs losses in the job loss thread.
SHOW me the real job gains, not the compete bullshit that is made up and portrayed by vested interests.
See here is the main difference, I can show you all REAL jobs losses, but NOBODY can show many any REAL jobs gains, and I mean in numbers that in anyway counter the job losses.
Any chance......Not at all.
Quote:
Well you tell me what is a better wage to guage unemployment figures than by going off the number of people that are unemployed. This is the joke zaph, that these figures are just estimates , just bullshit.
See my edited reply to BP, particularly "People may not qualify for the dole but be unemployed and actively looking for work.".
Quote:
So you can believe whatever bs you like zaph, but like I said, if these jokes were not in place, the REAL figures would be closer to double.
I believe that meaningful figures about UE would be higher than the ABS estimates, mostly based on their definition of employment.
Red tape? It's only just begun. Forcing job-seekers to apply for 40 jobs each per month will bombard employers with more than 1 million applications per day, every working day of every year.
About 740,000 Australians are unemployed. Even at the peak of the mining boom the total wasn't much short of 500,000. Forcing most to apply for more than one job per day (while also working for the dole if they are under 50) will see them sending out pro forma emails at a pointless rate.
Bendigo has 700 unemployed residents. Making them apply repeatedly to the same pool of employers month after month will drain their ability to apply for jobs they might actually get and drive their would-be employers around the twist.
It won't be too bad for big organisations with well-resourced human resources departments. They have staff they can assign to worthless work. But small firms will have no one to pass the work to.
''They will be inundated,'' says Peter Strong of the Council of Small Business of Australia. ''It's an embarrassment for everybody and it's going to make people angry. The small business person might be having a lousy day and no customers are coming in, but she'll be getting job-seekers. In the hospitality industry most of the time you know straight away whether someone can pour a cup of coffee. You don't want that person coming back month after month.''
No wonder they dont want to use dole claims, basically its an easily fibbed number open to Political horseplay.
See my edited response to you BP. If you can find actual dole numbers I'd be very interested (I've actually posted it here many moons ago, when you probably still surfing). Any actual dole figures would need to be read with caution - they are highly seasonal, so need to be compared over years not months.
ABS UE data is a very good estimate of what it measures. But is what it measures appropriate? The periodic change is an ok indication of change in the labour market - the absolute figure is not a good measure of how many people are struggling with their employment.
It's definition of employment is BS - working a few hours a week is not being employed in my eyes.
If you can find actual dole numbers I'd be very interested (I've actually posted it here many moons ago, when you probably still surfing). Any actual dole figures would need to be read with caution - they are highly seasonal, so need to be compared over years not months.
ABS UE data is a very good estimate of what it measures. But is what it measures appropriate? The periodic change is an ok indication of change in the labour market - the absolute figure is not a good measure of how many people are struggling with their employment.
It's definition of employment is BS - working a few hours a week is not being employed in my eyes.
The ABS missed by at least 80,000 people in their estimate. That is almost 3* their standard error. Apparently, there is 1 chance in 20 of this occurring.
Add to it, the people who are not on a government payment, and the ABS figures are beyond a joke.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry
"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
The solution is clear – a combination of stimulus for small business and provision of free skills training for roles that are specifically shown to be in demand (through job ads statistics).
We need a fertile environment to encourage business growth – particularly in the small business sector which is getting hammered – and the seeds of an educated/trained mobile workforce in order to meet demand. Without either of these things, the economy isn’t going to grow to employ these unemployed people.
Given that international evidence seems to show that WftD type schemes don’t actually achieve their aims, and in fact make labour mobility worse (less time for unemployed to cross-train and look for jobs), it is the direct opposite of what the Government should be looking at.
It really is as simple as that. 100 dogs out looking for bones but only 95 bones in existence - the fact that some dogs must come home without a bone is such a starkly obvious reality that a young child can understand it. If the jobs exist they can be found - if they aren't there at the time, no amount of searching will magically turn up what isn't there.
If they can make people work for the dole then they can re-institute their old (once very successful) approach of government acting as employer of last resort. They don't want to because it runs counter to the prevailing ideology and because some elements in society benefit from the existence of a pool of unemployed.
I didn't realise that police, firefighters, doctors, nurses, paramedics, schoolteachers etc etc etc were not actually out there on the job each day, performing functions that civillization as we know it would collapse without.
Thanks for your post Leftee, it saves me from repeating the obvious. This government is a bunch of imbeciles.
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