Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 shot down. 295 dead including 27 Australians.; Malaysia Airlines plane en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur shot down by surface-to-air missile
Tweet Topic Started: 18 Jul 2014, 08:23 AM (15,173 Views)
Ukraine has already agreed to an international investigation and will fully co-operate while Russia will not.
Perhaps it is worse then we thought and the missile was fired by Russian advisors, oh else do a bunch of rebels operate a sophisticated air defence system and use it to spot a plane flying at 10,000 metres (33,000 feet).
If Russia has no part in this and nothing to hide hand over the black boxes. The planes crashed in Ukraine, so the only way Russia could get the boxes is if its agents on the ground took it and moved it to Russian territory.
Not a lot of confidence building going on from Putin's camp. Really, I don't see the Ukrainian government arming rebels inside Russia with advanced heavy weapons such as T-72 tanks, Grad Surface to Surface missiles, Artillery and now advanced Surface to Air Missile Systems.
Seems are rather well equipped and trained bunch of rebels that should find it hard to clean a simple assault machine gun let alone operate advanced military hardware that normally takes years of training to operate effectively.
Can you explain that?
The logical answer is the Rebels have been and still are mostly Russian military forces operating as Rebels or Militia groups, hence the supply of heavy weapons from Russia to its soldiers inside Ukraine as they know how to use the equipment. Far from a bunch of civilians who are disgruntled at the pro-western Government in Kiev who should find it hard to aim straight let alone shoot down an airliner at 33,000 feet. Just to add some perspective to what these rebels are doing and how well they are doing it.
Look at the current conflict in Gaza or Lebanon. Hamas with all of its experience and supply of weapons from Iran is unable to shoot down a single Israeli warplane. Why cannot Hamas operate an advanced surface to air missile system, they have decades of experience fighting Isreal.
Or lets take Hezbollah, far more powerful then Hamas, yet that are not capable of operating the same weapons systems a bunch of rag tag Pro-Russian rebels can operate despite decades of battlefield experience. Seems these Pro-Russian militants find advanced weapons at every local store and instantly know how to use them very effectively, why is that.
Granted Israeli air force is far more competent then Ukraine's but you would think Hamas or Hezbollah would get lucky after all of these years, nope. Pro-Russian rebels shoot down 3 planes in 3 days with advanced air defences missiles and the know how to use them. Not bad for a bunch of farmers or factory hands.
I am sure Putin will be supplying separatists with a Topol system next?
Perhaps the investigation has to be launched into why the Ukraine government did not declare an official war zone and why commercial aircraft was flying over a hostile area?
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Ukraine is a nation fundamentally divided within itself Mike.
Throwing stones at the separatists and at Russia to whom those separatists might see themselves basically belonging won't change that.
In fact nothing will change it?
I've never seen any people struggle with what I'd normally think of as paranoia as Ukrainians - Ask a West type dude their thoughts (when they aren't full of vodka) or ask an East type dude their thoughts (when they aren't full of vodka), and they'll think you are trying to pump them as to their political allegiance on behalf of 'the state'.
To the point where I can only assume they both have sound historical/practical reasons for being 'paranoid' ...
But there's a reason to "why" wonder if those reponsible will ever get caught.... & if the truth really eventuates.
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Who, what, why: How often do planes fly over conflict zones?
The crash of Malaysian airliner MH17 in eastern Ukraine has raised questions about which conflict zones commercial jets will fly over. Who decides where is safe to fly, asks Tom de Castella.
Most of the decisions about a route are taken by airlines. But they must avoid no-fly zones. The area where the Malaysian airliner crashed had a no-fly zone in place up to 32,000ft (9,754m). The airliner was flying at 33,000ft (10,058m).
There are also national aviation bodies to consider. For example, the US's Federal Aviation Administration in April issued a Notam (notice to airmen) that prohibited US airliners from flying over the Crimean region of Ukraine and nearby areas of the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. After the crash of MH17 it widened that to cover the whole of Ukraine.
The answer
No-fly zones must be avoided A national aviation authority can ban its airlines from flying over part of a foreign country Otherwise it is up to the airlines to decide
British Airways has been avoiding eastern Ukraine for some time, the BBC understands. But many airlines continued to fly over it. According to Flight radar24, which monitors live flight paths, the airlines that most frequently flew over Donetsk in eastern Ukraine in the last week were: Aeroflot 86 (flights), Singapore Airlines 75, Ukraine International Airlines 62, Lufthansa 56, and Malaysian 48. It was not necessarily a risky approach. The chance of a rocket reaching above 32,000 feet was considered remote, says Sylvia Spruck Wrigley, author of Why Planes Crash.
The UK's Civil Aviation Authority says airlines' decisions will be based on a range of factors - advice from the Foreign Office, warnings in the area, weather, navigation aids, strikes and which airports are out of action. They will generally fly the shortest route - a long detour around a warzone will cause delay and add extra fuel costs.
Airlines fly over most trouble spots, says Mikael Robertsson, co-founder of Flight radar24. They have to get from A to B in the most efficient manner possible. Syria is probably the only airspace that everyone avoids. Other trouble spots - North Korea and Somalia - airliners do fly over, he says, although it is hard to verify how common this is.
A pilot told the Guardian that "We would often avoid areas where there is air-to-air conflict, but we flew over Iraq and Afghanistan when the British and US armed forces were deployed there, because only one side was using military jets."
Airlines tend to be secretive about operational details, perhaps for security reasons. BA says that it will not give "further details" on its routes, adding: "Some parts of the world are closed to commercial airline operations and we would never fly in airspace unless we were satisfied that it was safe to do so." It still flies to Ukraine, although not over the east of the country.
Qantas would only say: "We don't fly over the Ukraine. For London to Dubai we fly 400 nautical miles south of the region."
No need to apologize when is enemies of the United States who are categorized as less than human!
Shooting down Boeing aircraft carries a special outrage greater than that of shooting down Airbus!
Quote:
Iran Air Flight 655 From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Iran Air Flight 655 A similar A300B2-200 registered EP-IBT Shootdown summary Date 3 July 1988 Summary Shot down by USS Vincennes Site Strait of Hormuz, Persian Gulf Passengers 274 Crew 16 Fatalities 290 (all) Survivors 0 Aircraft type Airbus A300B2-203 Operator Iran Air Registration EP-IBU Flight origin Mehrabad International Airport Tehran, Iran Last stopover Bandar Abbas Int'l Airport Bandar Abbas, Iran Destination Dubai International Airport Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai that was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes on 3 July 1988. The attack took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from the Vincennes.
All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died.[1] This attack ranks tenth among the deadliest disasters in aviation history; the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Persian Gulf and the highest death toll of any incident involving an Airbus aircraft anywhere in the world.[2] The Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits.
According to the Iranian government, Vincennes negligently shot down the civilian aircraft: the airliner was making IFF squawks in Mode III (not Mode II used by Iranian military planes), a signal that identified it as a civilian craft, and operators of Vincennes mistook for Mode II.
According to the United States Government, the crew incorrectly identified the Iranian Airbus A300 as an attacking F-14 Tomcat fighter (a plane made in the United States and operated at that time by only two forces worldwide, the United States Navy and the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force).
The event generated a great deal of controversy and criticism of the United States. Some analysts have blamed U.S. military commanders and the captain of Vincennes for reckless and aggressive behavior in a tense and dangerous environment.
The United States did not apologize to Iran.[7] In 1996, the United States and Iran reached "an agreement in full and final settlement of all disputes, differences, claims, counterclaims" relating to the incident at the International Court of Justice.[8] As part of the settlement, the United States did not admit legal liability but agreed to pay US$61.8 million, ($92.9 million today), amounting to $213,103.45 ($320446 today) per passenger, in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims.
Iran Air still uses flight number IR655 on the Tehran–Dubai route as a memorial to the victims.
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