Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 shot down. 295 dead including 27 Australians.; Malaysia Airlines plane en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur shot down by surface-to-air missile
Tweet Topic Started: 18 Jul 2014, 08:23 AM (15,177 Views)
The explosion – many assume shooting down – of Malaysia Airlines passenger flight MH17 which has killed 295 people over the disputed region in Eastern Ukraine has roiled markets overnight. Stocks and the Aussie dollar are down, gold up, and bond markets are rallying strongly.
Rumours from the ground in Ukraine are that the plane was shot down by a ground-to-air missile. Additionally this morning, news broke that Israel has launched a ground offensive into Gaza.
This combination of events has caused a risk-off event in markets and at the close the Dow is down 0.94% or 161 points to 16,977, the S&P 500 lost 1.19% or 24 points to 1,958 and gold is up $20 ounce to $1,318.
Oil has jumped $1.84 bbl to $103.04.
But the biggest move has been in the safe haven of bond markets, with US 10-year Treasuries rallying 7 points to 2.46% for a new 2014 low. Bonds in Europe and on the SFE here in Australia have also rallied.
Locally, the SPI 200 September contract on the SFE is down 20 points to 5462 bid while the Aussie dollar has fallen since the announcement of the Israeli ground offensive and is currently at 0.9354.
Pro-Russian rebels had claimed to have shot down a Ukrianian AN-26 at the same time and same area the airline was shot down. This was posted by Pro-Russian rebels on social media. It was only when they reached the crash site it became clear this was not a military plane but a civilian.
Excerpts have also been released of a conversation between a rebel and a Russian agent, which suggests it was shot down in error but was a deliberate attack by Russian backed rebel forces.
A powerful rader was also detected just prior to the attack which illuminated the target, it is not know if this was the radar from the missile system or a radar from the Russian side of the border, investigations will determine the location.
Needless to say this action locks in another round of tougher sanctions just days after a further round. The Russian economy already had 0% growth in the 1st quarter, with sanctions expected to send the Russian economy into recession in coming months. Hard biting sanctions could shrink Russia's economy by as much as 10% over the next year! which would cripple Russia for years and likely result in social upheaval and a reversal of Putins popularity. Putins closest supports are now hurting and two camps have emerged in the Kremlin, those that want this Ukrianan mess to stop and resume business with the west and hawks who want Putin to be tougher.
Putin is backing himself into a corner, he knows the economy is weak and cannot take any more sanctions, yet if he gives in to the West he will lose face and a lot of support. Putin is now in a no win situation, it all ends badly for Russia.
UKRAINIAN security services claim to have intercepted two phone conversations in which pro-Russian separatists discuss having just shot down a civilian plane. A transcript of the phone intercept was made shortly after MH17 was shot down. The participants are reportedly Russian military intelligence officer Igor Bezler, his superior in Russian intelligence Colonel Vasily Geranin, a rebel fighter going by the name ‘Major’ and another comrade called ‘Greek’.
This how their discussion ran: Igor Bezler: We have just shot down a plane. Group Minera. It fell down beyond Yenakievo. Vasili Geranin: Pilots. Where are the pilots? IB: Gone to search for and photograph the plane. It’s smoking. VG: How many minutes ago? IB: About 30 minutes ago. (Ukrainian Security Service Comment: After examining the site of the plane the terrorists come to the conclusion that they have shot down a civilian plane. The next part of the conversation took place about 40 minutes later.)
“Major”: These are Chernukhin folks shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those cossacks who are based in Chernukhino. “Greek”: Yes, Major. “Major”: The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first “200” (code word for dead person). We have found the first “200.” A Civilian. “Greek”: Well, what do you have there? “Major”: In short, it was 100 per cent a passenger (civilian) aircraft. “Greek”: Are many people there? “Major”: Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes). “Greek”: What kind of aircraft? “Major”: I haven’t ascertained this. I haven’t been to the main sight. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats, and bodies. “Greek”: Is there anything left of the weapon? “Major”: Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper. “Greek”: Are there documents? “Major”: Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson. Under heavy guard ... Russian separatist Igor Strelkov arriving at the MH17 crash site. Even before the phone call was revealed, it was looking increasingly likely a Russian separatist movement was behind the shooting down of the flight as it passed over Ukraine toward the Malaysian capital Kuala Lumpur. The Boeing 777-200 commercial MH-17 flight from Amsterdam, code sharing with Dutch national carrier KLM flight KL-4103, was carrying 295 people including 15 crew when it disappeared from radar. The plane scattered over a wide area in fields near the village of Grabovo, 40km from the Russian border near the rebel-held regional capital Donetsk. ‘We downed an An-26’ Social media posts by pro-Russian insurgents - most of them hastily removed - suggest the rebels thought they had shot down a Ukrainian army plane before realising in horror that it was in fact a packed Malaysian airliner. The Twitter and blog messages were immediately publicised by top Kiev officials in their furious information war with the Kremlin for global opinion and the hearts and minds of ethnic Russians caught in the worst East-West crisis since the Cold War.
Russia’s state media avoided any mention of the controversial posts and instead reported militia leaders’ later charges that the Ukrainian air force had shot down the Boeing 777 liner instead. The rebels first claimed to have downed at least one Ukrainian army plane over the strife-torn eastern rustbelt on late Thursday afternoon. The VK social networking page of Igor Strelkov - “defence minister” of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic - first announced: “We just downed an An-26 near (the town of) Torez.” “And here is a video confirming that a ‘bird fell’,” said the post. The website then provides a link identical to that published by Ukrainian media in reports about the Malaysia Airlines jet. The video shows locals referring to the same coal mine in the region mentioned by Strelkov. The VK post was soon removed - but not before its screen grab was captured and distributed in an English-language press release by the military headquarters of Kiev’s eastern campaign. The comments attributed to Strelkov did not identify what missile was used to down the craft at what Kiev said was an altitude of 10,000 metres.
But a message on the official Twitter account of the Donetsk People’s Republic had announced hours earlier that insurgents had seized a series of Russian-made Buk systems capable of soaring to that height. “@dnrpress: self-propelled Buk surface-to-air missile systems have been seized by the DNR from (Ukrainian) surface-to-air missile regiment A1402,” said the post. That tweet was later deleted as well. Radar detected missile before jet went down An intelligence-gathering radar system saw a surface-to-air missile system switch on and track an aircraft right before the plane went down, a senior US official told CNN. A second radar system saw a heat signature at the time the airliner was hit, the official said, and the US is working to track the rocket’s trajectory to determine its origin. Ukraine’s Security Service chief Valentyn Nalyvaichenko said he had “unconditional evidence” that Russia was involved in downing the craft. But Russian President Vladimir Putin said Ukraine was responsible for the crash. “There is no doubt that the country on whose territory this terrible tragedy happened bears responsibility,” Putin was quoted by Ria Novosti news agency as saying. “This tragedy would not have happened if there was peace in the country, if military operations had not resumed in the south-east of Ukraine.” The Russian leader then said he had ordered military officials to “provide all aid needed to shed light on this criminal act”. US officials “strongly believe” the airliner was shot down by a surface-to-air missile but have not identified who fired it. World leaders including German Chancellor Angela Merkel and UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon quickly called for a full international investigation of the disaster.
International Aviation authorities have formally closed airspace in the east of Ukraine prompting many to question why this had not been done weeks ago as it became apparent rebels had the potential to shoot down aircraft. Radar contact was lost about 2.15pm GMT (12:15am AEST) as the plane flew at an altitude of 33,000 feet (10,000 metres). Witnesses said they saw the plane come down and later reported there were charred bodies and wreckage strewn over a large area of the fields. “I was working in the field on my tractor when I heard the sound of a plane and then a bang,” one local man said. “Then I saw the plane hit the ground and break in two. There was thick black smoke.” The scale of the tragedy, now involving hundreds of foreigners, could be the tipping point in the long simmering Ukraine conflict with Russia and pro-Malaysian forces. There are reports there were about nine British citizens on the flight as well Americans and 20 Dutch travelling to the Malaysian capital. One passenger took a photo of the aircraft before it took off and tweeted it to friends joking it was what the aircraft looked like should it disappear.
So far, no one had taken responsibility for the downing of the airline with the Russian separatists blaming the Ukraine military and suggesting it was hit by a Ukraine air force fighter, while the Ukraine denied it implicitly, saying it was a ground-to-air shot by Russian-backed rebels. The height of the flight meant it was beyond range of smaller Rocket Propelled Grenade launchers used by rebels to shoot down smaller aircraft and helicopters. The head of Ukraine’s airspace regulatory body Dmytro Babeychuk said there had been no problems with the flight. “The flight was taking place normally ... there had been no word of any problems from the crew,” he said. Since April this year and the escalation of hostilities in Ukraine, the US air transport officials banned its aircraft from travelling over Ukraine and Russian border airspace but it appears the precautionary ban was not imposed by other carriers. Late yesterday many airlines issued statements saying they would now avoid the area. Both the White House and the Kremlin offered condolences and pledged to assist any way they could to investigate the matter. Russia has formally asked Ukraine for permission to investigate and attend the crash scene; there was no reply.
Leaders of rebels in the Donetsk People’s Republic denied any involvement, although around the same time their military commander said his forces had downed a much smaller Ukrainian transport plane — their third such kill this week. This appears to conflict with another rebel leader who about the time MH17 went down tweeted that his forces had shot down a large Antonov military transport aircraft. ‘Passengers would not have known before they were hit’ The BUK - or SA6 variant Russian made missile thought to have brought down MH17 - is likely to have either been seized by pro-Russian rebel forces from a captured Ukrainian cache or supplied by Russia, former UN weapons analyst Ben Rich said. The radar-controlled SA6 carries a 70kg high-explosive warhead and is designed to detonate within 20 metres of its target, causing terminal damage to an aircraft’s engines and control systems and cause secondary damage through fuel explosion, and wing and fuselage rupture, Mr Rich said. Mr Rich, a former weapons analyst with the UN’s Department of Peace Keeping, said the SA6 family of portable, trucked missiles is the only known type in the region capable of reaching a 10km altitude to hit a commercial aircraft. “These people (on board) would not have known the second before they were hit,” Mr Rich said. He said prior to the downing, there had been no suggestion pro-Russian separatists had the capacity for such high-altitude attacks. “Commercial aircraft do fly over war zones, as they have over Afghanistan, but they operate under the presumption they are not going to be shot down,” Mr Rich said. “This is a major escalation in terms of the type of equipment being used (in the conflict).” He said pro-Russian forces had used man-portable or shoulder-mounted weapons - which have a 2km altitude range - to bring down a Ukrainian Anatov 26 transport aircraft and a SU26 strike aircraft in the past week in the same area of eastern Ukraine, the self-proclaimed Lugansk People’s Republic, which is held by insurgent forces where MH17 was fired upon. Ukraine had been left brimming with Soviet-era weapons but this is the first time the SA6 is believed to have been used.
There were some reports of previous missile firing from the Russian side of the border but that may have also been from rebel forces stationed outside Ukraine, Mr Rich, now at Monash University said. The 1970s-era SA6, or “straight flush” system, is a tracked-carrier mounted missile and has a separate vehicle containing a radar system. The more modern variant is a single unit system. Mr Rich said a crew would rely on the radar, rather than the naked eye, to identify an aircraft at 10km altitude, but there would be no automatic idenfiers on the radar system to differentiate whether a target is military of commercial. He said altitide, speed and constant direction would suggest a commercial aircraft and radio monitoring would pick up squarks, or signals being sent from a commercial airline to ground navigation systems. The firing crew would have needed some experience to operate the SA6, he said. “It requires some sort of expertise ... (but) it was a bungle.” Mr Rich said some reports, not yet verified, monitored radio transmissions from rebel forces identifying the plane as non-military prior to it being shot from the sky. The trajectory of the missile launch, based on records of where MH17 was when it lost radar contact, would be used to triangulate and identify where the weapon was fired. If it was confirmed as being fired from rebel-held territory, investigators could be confident it was fired by pro-Russian insurgents, he said.
Pro-Russian rebels had claimed to have shot down a Ukrianian AN-26 at the same time and same area the airline was shot down. This was posted by Pro-Russian rebels on social media. It was only when they reached the crash site it became clear this was not a military plane but a civilian.
Excerpts have also been released of a conversation between a rebel and a Russian agent, which suggests it was shot down in error but was a deliberate attack by Russian backed rebel forces.
A powerful rader was also detected just prior to the attack which illuminated the target, it is not know if this was the radar from the missile system or a radar from the Russian side of the border, investigations will determine the location.
Needless to say this action locks in another round of tougher sanctions just days after a further round. The Russian economy already had 0% growth in the 1st quarter, with sanctions expected to send the Russian economy into recession in coming months. Hard biting sanctions could shrink Russia's economy by as much as 10% over the next year! which would cripple Russia for years and likely result in social upheaval and a reversal of Putins popularity. Putins closest supports are now hurting and two camps have emerged in the Kremlin, those that want this Ukrianan mess to stop and resume business with the west and hawks who want Putin to be tougher.
Putin is backing himself into a corner, he knows the economy is weak and cannot take any more sanctions, yet if he gives in to the West he will lose face and a lot of support. Putin is now in a no win situation, it all ends badly for Russia.
Putin is learning the meaning of strategic over stretch, he tried to take to much when he holds little real power.
With your knowledge of military hardware Mike, do you think it likely this was shot down at 33000 feet, or could there be some other explanation? It will be interesting to see what evidence comes in. I know they fly planes over other dodgy areas. Could have wider implications.
Whenever you have an argument with someone, there comes a moment where you must ask yourself, whatever your political persuasion, 'am I the Nazi?'
With your knowledge of military hardware Mike, do you think it likely this was shot down at 33000 feet, or could there be some other explanation? It will be interesting to see what evidence comes in. I know they fly planes over other dodgy areas. Could have wider implications.
The media likes to jump to a juicy conclusion - shot down, shot down, shot down. Any other entity would do a little more research, and take a little more time before jumping to that conclusion. The second home made video in the op news link makes me question that it was shot down - there was no fireball dropping from the sky. The video starts with nothing on the horizon and then a huge smoke plume coming from the ground. I'm only questioning it, not saying the news reports are incorrect.
With your knowledge of military hardware Mike, do you think it likely this was shot down at 33000 feet, or could there be some other explanation? It will be interesting to see what evidence comes in. I know they fly planes over other dodgy areas. Could have wider implications.
"Since the beginning of the fightings in Eastern Ukraine, between pro-Russia separatists and Ukrainian military, several aircraft (including large cargo planes as an An-30 and an Il-76 and many Mi-24 Hind and Mi-8 Hip helicopters) were shot down by the local militia using portable surface-to-air missile systems. A video showed an Il-76 releasing flares shortly after take off from Donetsk, a sign that Ukrainian cargo planes are equipped with self-defenses against heat seeking air-to-air or surface-to-air missiles. Little details are available on the type of MANPADS used in Ukraine, other than they posea serious threat to Ukrainian aircraft . As already pointed out in the recent past, those involved in the downing of two Mil Mi-24 Hind helicopters by“unknown persons by means of man-portable air defense system (PZRK)” overnight into May 2 , were Igla: either 9K310 Igla-1 (SA-16 “Gimlet”), or newer 9K38 Igla (SA-18 “Grouse”), which are known to be operated by the Ukrainian (and Russian) military; others were reportedly stolen from Ukrainian units in March and may have ended in the separatists hands. However, according to the Ukraine’s Interior Ministry, the plane was hit by a SAM fired from a Russian-built SA-11 Buk launcher. The Buk, known as SA-11 or SA-17 is a self propelled medium range, medium altitude anti aircraft system with a maximum range of 13NM and a ceiling of 39,400 feet. With a semi-active radar homing guidance system and a 70 Kg warhead it may hit a large plane at FL330 and cause a catastrophic decompression. The SA-11 is known to be operated by the Ukrainian armed forces; a launcher was also spotted in Eastern Ukraine lately.
Other reports say it could have been an SA-6 Cube captured from Kiev stocks. But the SA-6 is mobile surface-to-air missile system for low to medium-level air defence system that is not believed to be able to reach the crusing level of the MH17 flight......."
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WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE! Share a cot with Milton?
A civilian aircraft should not have been flying over what is effectively a war zone where missiles are being fired regularly.
My first thought as well. But obviously it happens.
On 16 Jan 1991, I was on the MH flight from Frankfurt to Kuala Lumpur, which flew directly over Iraq. Operation desert storm started less than 24 hours after I flew over that airspace.
Incredibly tragic, and there but for the grace of God.....
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
If it was shot down then it would be either a careless mistake (identification error) by the rebels or covert deliberate action by the Ukrainian gov. Only the Ukrainian government could get an advantage from it.
My first thought as well. But obviously it happens.
On 16 Jan 1991, I was on the MH flight from Frankfurt to Kuala Lumpur, which flew directly over Iraq. Operation desert storm started less than 24 hours after I flew over that airspace.
Incredibly tragic, and there but for the grace of God.....
Yeah, flying can be iffy. (The Ukrainian Embassy has about $127 visa fee application loot of mine I sent them just before things blew up over there - Where I never proceeded with the application.)
And one trip that I regret not taking in hindsight was to Tehran back in about 2007. But thinking about it really realistically at the time, it just sounded a bit too high risk too.
Gotta really feel for the poor baskets on that Air Malaysia flight - I bet fuck all of them would have thought to ask about the flight path?
Will be interesting to see who gets sued and for how much over this debacle. Though yep, Putin is gunna get his little bot bot spanked by the West.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer:"negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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