Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 shot down. 295 dead including 27 Australians.; Malaysia Airlines plane en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur shot down by surface-to-air missile
Tweet Topic Started: 18 Jul 2014, 08:23 AM (15,166 Views)
John Kerry now comes out and says: "the US had seen supplies moving into Ukraine from Russia in the past month, including a 150-vehicle convoy of armoured personnel carriers, tanks and rocket launchers given to the separatists."
And all the time civilian airliners continue flying over the region. Great; Just bloody marvellous - What the fuck goes through all these clowns' heads?
The US has been saying for months Russians were directly involved in the Ukrainian conflict. Hence the sanctions that keep increasing. The US and Britain did issue warnings for Airlines to avoid Eastern Ukraine, 25% of all Airlines agreed and changed flight paths. US warnings to airlines date back to April while the UK increased it warnings in June. Most airliners kept flying this path as it is cheaper to do so and no one really thought what is a civil war would be shooting down airliners from 33,000 feet, this is unprecedented. No civil war has had airliners shoot down from 10km up as no rebels have ever been so well equipped or trained.....cough....Russian Military.....cough. Bit of a tickle there.
It has been well reported for months Russian tanks and artillery crossing the border. It was Russian special forces who caused all the trouble in the Crimea. Russia created all these false flags to justify its actions.
Putins puppet who refused to reform the economy used violence in a massive way against his own population then fled to Russia when the people revolted against his rule. Seems every liberal revolution against governments which slaughter there own people is some US CIA plot. You and others are dreaming, the US can't even shut up Snowden or keep it spies from being discovered in Germany let alone out do the Russians in the Ukraine. To many spy movies I think.
Place the blame where it lies, with those who sent the forces into that region, Russia. Blame the people who fired the missile, Russia. Russia is responsible for this no one else.
How do you think these Russian rebels got the hardware such as Grad surface to surface missile systems, Tanks, Artillery and now SAM air defence systems let alone the training to use them. Seems Russia supplies weapons these days with trained crews, more like mercenaries. To bad these Islamic fighters who have been fighting for over 10 years against US forces yet could not dream to operate such equipment, yet rebels in Ukraine pull an instant army out of a bottle of vodka.
It's 2014 and Hillary Clinton just could the next US prez in 2016 - If dudes who are looking for a blow up in the world situation don't get it before then regardless, I reckon Hillary can be to relied on to up their chances.
I'm starting to get seriously cranky here Doc - Kerry knew there were massive flows of heavy duty Russian military hardware and expertise into Donetsk and yet nothing was done to curtail international civilian flights over the airspace???
Reminds me just a bit too much of the odd sick twisted dude you'd get in the mining industry whose approach to safety was to sit back and say "Look at what poor old stupid is doing; Ferk - He's REALLY gunna hurt himself - Hehehe."
Have our 'full and open and honest and totally transparent' investigation into the downing of MH17 by all means - But ask all parties what their involvement was/culpability is as part of it surely?!?
I do understand your point Herbie, and to some extent I agree. I think kerry in particular got the Ukraine completely wrong. The us have played this badly from the start. But the situation you have here is like when you watch someone else's child bully your child all day, and then out of frustration your child decks the other child with a half brick. No amount of moral ground can wrong that right. With the flick of a trigger the Russians have lost all support. And yes, it could have been a very clever action by Ukraine as lulldapull suggests. But I think the chances are against you.
Whenever you have an argument with someone, there comes a moment where you must ask yourself, whatever your political persuasion, 'am I the Nazi?'
I reckon the focus needs to stay on Russia for the moment. If America had shot down the plane, then I would say the focus should be on America. The logic isn't complicated.
To turn this around into an anti-US rant says something about the complexes in the minds of the US-haters.
These US-haters seem to be locked into some sort of demented fury that never lets go and controls all their thoughts.
I am responding to propaganda urging action against Russia, when the facts are not known.
This is a warzone, and in the smoke of war, terrible things occur.
No one knows what has happened yet.
Shooting of ones mouth in Australia with wrong information and analysis, is not helpful.
Dr Watson
21 Jul 2014, 12:33 PM
Yeah mate, it's all America's fault. Everything is America's fault. US elite forces snuck into Ukraine and shot down the plane. It's all America's fault. You guys are geniuses.
You need to shut that yap. No doubt you are another warmonger who has never served in the military.
I am responding to propaganda urging action against Russia, when the facts are not known.
And when the facts do become known, and if they implicate Russia, will your position change? Somehow, I doubt it. You're playing the "we don't know all the facts" card because that's all you've got to cling onto. If not the Russians, then who?
And when the facts do become known, and if they implicate Russia, will your position change? Somehow, I doubt it. You're playing the "we don't know all the facts" card because that's all you've got to cling onto. If not the Russians, then who?
We see time again that that the initial "facts" and finger pointing are often wrong.
I don't want to go into another war because testosterone and the fog interact to produce a bad outcome.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE! Share a cot with Milton?
I don't want to go into another war because testosterone and the fog interact to produce a bad outcome.
Nobody should want to get into another war. Except perhaps Putin ... who would dearly love to expand his reach. I doubt Obama has any appetite for war — what, with the national debt and all. No, the annexer and warmonger here is Putin.
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt — Bertrand Russell
We've gone from the following to where we are now (with MH17 in between) in 14 days:
"Separatist rebels retreated Monday from positions in eastern Ukraine, apparently blowing up bridges, and began building barricades in the two largest cities, Donetsk and Luhansk, in anticipation of a final stand against advancing government troops.
While separatist leaders have complained bitterly about being sold out by their allies in Moscow, Ukrainian officials said Monday that they had succeeded in sealing the previously porous border with Russia, stopping the influx of new weapons and fighters."
And the rest is well worth a read as a reminder too ...
And it gets called a civil war in one breath by those who effectively deny the existence of significant numbers of separatists and see it as basically a straight out conflict by Ukraine military and Russian military in the next breath - A conflict that their supposed 'Russian military' was losing!?!
You'll just have to continue to forgive me for continuing to suspect we are being fed shit as usual I'm afraid ...
Nobody should want to get into another war. Except perhaps Putin ... who would dearly love to expand his reach. I doubt Obama has any appetite for war — what, with the national debt and all. No, the annexer and warmonger here is Putin.
Putin invades and annexes territory for the first time since 1945 in Europe and they are trying to paint the US as the bad guy. Obama is doing everything possible to avoid war everywhere, so much that many now wish he would be more involved in the world. Now Putin wants to slice and dice the Ukraine. These guys would paint Hitlers take over of Austria and the Sudentland in a shining light, who knows where Putins warmonger will lead us next.
Putin invades and annexes territory for the first time since 1945 in Europe and they are trying to paint the US as the bad guy. Obama is doing everything possible to avoid war everywhere, so much that many now wish he would be more involved in the world. Now Putin wants to slice and dice the Ukraine. These guys would paint Hitlers take over of Austria and the Sudentland in a shining light, who knows where Putins warmonger will lead us next.
Did the majority of Austrians object?
Whenever you have an argument with someone, there comes a moment where you must ask yourself, whatever your political persuasion, 'am I the Nazi?'
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