The very same Mitchell article above entirely supports Andrews statement that in MMT theory taxes are used to control inflation which you denied.
Fraser, you need to find out what MMT is about before you throw your hat in with it and make a fool of yourself with your ignorance.
MMT is a left wing con designed to fool people into supporting socialistic government spending of other peoples money on things chosen by lefties.
I don't read Bill Mitchell either, and nor do I profess to being an MMT'er but I do appreciate many of their explanations. There is absolutely no onus on me to adhere strictly to any MMT paradigm, what I say and do is my own business.
Now have you two old irrelevant farts have finished shadow boxing with your own strawman arguments?
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
I don't read Bill Mitchell either, and nor do I profess to being an MMT'er but I do appreciate many of their explanations. There is absolutely no onus on me to adhere strictly to any MMT paradigm, what I say and do is my own business.
Now have you two old irrelevant farts have finished shadow boxing with your own strawman arguments?
Peter, Hopefully you were able to learn a few of the basics of MMT and you will be able to avoid looking like a plonker in future.
Peter, Hopefully you were able to learn a few of the basics of MMT and you will be able to avoid looking like a plonker in future.
Andrew throughout this whole thread you did battle with what you thought I said. You created strawman after strawman and eventually the village idiot Strindberg piled in to settle an old grudge.
It's just sad, really sad.
Tell me then what did I actually say that you disagreed with? Actual words I used please and not figments of your imagination.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
Andrew throughout this whole thread you did battle with what you thought I said. You created strawman after strawman and eventually the village idiot Strindberg piled in to settle an old grudge.
It's just sad, really sad.
Tell me then what did I actually say that you disagreed with? Actual words I used please and not figments of your imagination.
Peter you regularly provide links to this forum from MMT sites, as you did in this thread.
And you told me that you had not read Mosler rather than told me you are not an MMTer
Obviously Argentina has very high inflation, and even if you know nothing about the economy of Argentina if you were an MMTer you would know that taxes are one of the primary tools to control consistantly inflating prices.
So in future i suggest you be a bit clearer you are not an MMTer, be clearer you know practically nothing about MMT, and therefore be clearer you will not be able to provide any intelligent comment if anybody mentions MMT in a discussion with you.
Peter you regularly provide links to this forum from MMT sites, as you did in this thread.
And you told me that you had not read Mosler rather than told me you are not an MMTer
Obviously Argentina has very high inflation, and even if you know nothing about the economy of Argentina if you were an MMTer you would know that taxes are one of the primary tools to control consistantly inflating prices.
So in future i suggest you be a bit clearer you are not an MMTer, know practically nothing about it, and will not be able to provide any intelligent comment if anybody mentions MMT in a discussion with you.
Andrew I made no suggestions about the Argentine economy and how to solve their woes, and I made that quite clear some pages ago.
I did say that in my opinion they should not pay Singer and just maintain the agreement with those creditors who had accepted the agreement reached years ago. I don't know the terms of that agreement, Argentina is not high on my list of problem solving priorities. Argentina will I'm sure eventually solve their own problems.
Now if you have a different view I seriously don't care, we are both entitled to hold any view that we choose.
None of the above has anything to do with MMT, it's my personal view. I don't care whether it conforms with an MMT view or not. What you and your idiot friend think I think is your problem, not mine.
You really are a prime dickhead Andrew.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
Argentina reached an agreement with it's creditors quite some time ago. Argentina want to pay those creditors but has been held up by the court actions of one creditor who bought their bonds for pennies on the dollar and then took court action.
Argentina should pay the creditors who accepted the settlement terms, and not pay the creditor who doesn't accept the terms previously agreed to.
Not that Argentina listens to us, so what happens is theatre at this point.
Peter
I began with this comment where you are muddling who has agreed as if everybody had once agreed, where in fact the vulture funds make up a small proportion of the holdouts.
I began with this comment where you are muddling who has agreed as if everybody had once agreed, where in fact the vulture funds make up a small proportion of the holdouts.
Most creditors accepted the agreement years ago. The action in the USA was brought by Paul Singer, I don't know whether there are many others but if there are there won't be that many.
Either way it's Argentina's problem not mine. My only advice was not to pay the holdouts, but how they solve their many issues is their concern.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
Most creditors accepted the agreement years ago. The action in the USA was brought by Paul Singer, I don't know whether there are many others but if there are there won't be that many.
Either way it's Argentina's problem not mine. My only advice was not to pay the holdouts, but how they solve their many issues is their concern.
Why pay any of the USD debt? Can you explain why it matters at all to pay any of that debt? Why the focus on the holdouts?
Why pay any of the USD debt? Can you explain why it matters at all to pay any of that debt? Why the focus on the holdouts?
Here are two paragraphs from todays "Economists"
Quote:
Most investors think they can see a pattern in all this, but Argentina’s president, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, insists the latest default is not like the others. Her government, she points out, had transferred the full $539m it owed to the banks that administer the bonds. It is America’s courts (the bonds were issued under American law) that blocked the payment, at the behest of the tiny minority of owners of bonds from 2001 who did not accept the restructuring Argentina offered them in 2005 and again in 2010. These “hold-outs”, balking at the 65% haircut the restructuring entailed, not only persuaded a judge that they should be paid in full but also got him to freeze payments on the restructured bonds until Argentina coughs up.
Argentina claims that paying the hold-outs was impossible. It is not just that they are “vultures” as Argentine officials often put it, who bought the bonds for cents on the dollar after the previous default and are now holding those who accepted the restructuring (accounting for 93% of the debt) to ransom. The main problem is that a clause in the restructured bonds prohibits Argentina from offering the hold-outs better terms without paying everyone else the same. Since it cannot afford to do that, it says it had no choice but to default.
So 93% of the bondholders agreed to the restructuring but about 7% have heldout. The US court has ruled that the interest payment to those who have agreed to the restructuring cannot be paid unless the 7% are paid in full.
Argentina are claiming that they can't afford to pay the 7% in full but have paid the 93% and the US court has stopped the payment. It does seem clear that Argentina cannot afford to 100% of bondholders the full amount.
My view is that the 93% should be paid the agreed amount, but if Argentina cannot afford to pay the 7% who are holding out then they should default on those debts, unless they also accept a restructuring.
Now if you disagree with my view that's fine, everyone has a right to an opinion.
So 93% of the bondholders agreed to the restructuring but about 7% have heldout. The US court has ruled that the interest payment to those who have agreed to the restructuring cannot be paid unless the 7% are paid in full.
Argentina are claiming that they can't afford to pay the 7% in full but have paid the 93% and the US court has stopped the payment.
My view is that the 93% should be paid the agreed amount, but if Argentina cannot afford to pay the 7% who are holding out then they should default on those debts, unless they also accept a restructuring.
Now if you disagree with my view that's fine, everyone has a right to an opinion.
I was asking why it matters to pay any of the USD debt. Why not just default on the lot? It is unsecured debt. There are no mortgages involved its just a bond. Right?
Andrew Judd
2 Aug 2014, 06:03 PM
Why pay any of the USD debt? Can you explain why it matters at all to pay any of that debt? Why the focus on the holdouts?
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