Count, do you see any difference in the historical debasement of gold and silver coinage and printing more paper?
It's easier and quicker to add zero's on the paper.
The Roman denarii was originally about 4.5 grams of silver. By the imperial period the weight of the total coin had fallen to 3.4 grams and the silver was about 2.9 grams. From the late 2nd century AD to the late 3rd the purity fell when Imperial interest rates hit 12%. At the end of the 3rd Diocletian boasted his coins were a reliable 5% silver. The denarii disappeared from psychical representation and became purely a concept that circulating coins were measured in. Diocletian was forced to institute the gold solidi because it was found a solid measure was required for account planning. Constantine revamped the Solidi to 4.5 grams and instituted a silver coin at 3.3 grams at 24 to the Solidi. Diocletion cutting 60 soilidi from a pound of gold and Constanine cutting 72 coins. But the general public saw little of this having to make do with bags of debased copper and bronze coins known as follies. The importance of the gold coinage is that having to pay a Legion in some far away place was more easily transmitted via gold which could be then converted to follies locally as pay to make the Legion fight.
The denarii is still in the ".d" penny concept used for predecimal coinage. The solidi or the ".s" for the shilling and there was the Pound. These originated from the Roman measures. The English silver penny started at around 1.4 /1.5 grams of fine silver in Anglo-Saxon times. It debased heavily over time (first going to sterling) particularly during the "hundred years war" finally ending up at under 0.5 grams and then replaced by a copper coin.
At the simple level I guess not much difference. They problem with debased money is it creates inefficiencies like future projections of costs.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!! You are no longer customer, you are property!!!
That's the thing money as cash is only 3% of the money system. Forget adding 000's to paper just move the digital point to the left with a keystroke.
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No, the monetary system is completely ruled by cash. The quantity of cash in relation to say a population that uses is the major what determines its value.
If the rest is debt or promises to pay, the measure of that promise to pay is the cash in circulation. Everything else is derived from it. See how you get if your debt or loans are denominated in anything bar cash!
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Your debasement examples were pretty light on, excuse the pun, compared to some of the really debased shenanigans that have occurred
Yes, well in the case of the Romans the denarii was reduced to a 50th of its earlier imperial value by the time of Diocletian. Very soon after that 100th, and then a bit further. After that it was forgotten about by the public.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!! You are no longer customer, you are property!!!
No, the monetary system is completely ruled by cash. The quantity of cash in relation to say a population that uses is the major what determines its value.
If the rest is debt or promises to pay, the measure of that promise to pay is the cash in circulation. Everything else is derived from it. See how you get if your debt or loans are denominated in anything bar cash!
Rubbish. Cash is just a promise to pay anyhow. A promise that if you hand it into a bank you will get real money - i.e. an electronic entry against your account.
Cash is analogous to stock certificates, paper bond coupons and land title deeds. Just a physical proxy for an abstract reality.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
Rubbish. Cash is just a promise to pay anyhow. A promise that if you hand it into a bank you will get real money - i.e. an electronic entry against your account.
Cash is analogous to stock certificates, paper bond coupons and land title deeds. Just a physical proxy for an abstract reality.
Just a cue for your limited comprehension of logic. Cash is the real article, it is the unit and the final payment. Your deposit in a bank is a promise to pay. Anybody including Joe and his dog can create infinite promises to pay, but the real article is limited to whatever is in circulation.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!! You are no longer customer, you are property!!!
Count, do you see any difference in the historical debasement of gold and silver coinage and printing more paper?
Historical debasements were blatantly obvious, the clipping of coins, the issuance of coins with less silver etc. Modern debasement though is done by stealth. I doubt one in a thousand Australians perceive it is occuring. Had it not been the relaxation of debt issuance beginning with the mass uptake of credit cards in the 1980's, and home equity in the 2000's perhaps people would have caught on by now. But they don't feel it yet, and all that debt repayment just keeps getting pushed further and further into the future. Many will retire pennyless when the ledgers are finally balanced.
Another variable worth pointing out is the quality of what you can buy today. 40 years a go or more everything was more expensive but that was primarily because of the quality of materials and workmanship. Todays toasters and cars and even houses are rubbish compared to what was built then. They are cheap though, hence the dollars in your pocket seem to streach just as far or further.
You can still build a quality house but it will cost $600,000 not $200,000. The same can be be said for most things you buy.
Another variable worth pointing out is the quality of what you can buy today. 40 years a go or more everything was more expensive but that was primarily because of the quality of materials and workmanship. Todays toasters and cars and even houses are rubbish compared to what was built then. They are cheap though, hence the dollars in your pocket seem to streach just as far or further.
I think this statement is complete rubbish!
Especially re cars - there is NO comparision between cars built 40+ years ago and those of today. Cars back then were inefficient and polluting. The build quality was awful compared to today - quality of paint/finish, body alignment, panel fit etc was all inferior. All aspects of vehicle dynamics were inferior - including everything including road holding, tyre technology, suspension, steering feel and precision, ride, comfort, noise, vibration, harshness etc etc. Brake performance was inferior to even the most basic car today as well. Cars built back then often started rusting out after a few years due to their poor design and build quality issues, so they did remain serviceable for as long. Engines needed to be rebuilt sooner etc etc. Those cars required more frequent servicing that cars of today as well, so cost more to own. Then there are the technological advantages modern cars have that make them far safer and better to drive - electronic fuel injection and computer controlled engine management vs fiddly mechanical carburetors, ABS, traction/stability control, airbags, setbelt pre-pensioners, improved side and front impact strength, energy absorption zones and so on. And all this for a cost that in real terms is far lower than what cars cost back then. I could go on but I think I have made my point.
I would make similar arguments for most whitegoods - cheaper today, better in every respect, more efficient, and they last just as long or longer.
Houses are a different topic and I think depends on the era and region, and I don't think you can make too many sweeping generalisations. In Sydney and surrounds, houses built before that start of 20th century were mostly rubbish. From the turn of the century until WWII build quality of most dwellings was very high. Post WWII up to the early 60s it was pretty crap. From the early 60s on you pretty much have a range of build quality that depends very much on the price, but over-all I would say that the quality of nearly every house built today is as good or better as anything else that's been built since the 60s. There were some shocking apartment blocks built in the 80s and 90s though, especially in Sydney, but the new blocks being built now are mostly pretty good build quality from what I have seen.
In Sydney and surrounds, houses built before that start of 20th century were mostly rubbish.
Hogwash. Take a walk around Woolwich some time and see the sandstone houses built in the late 19th century. I'd rather live in those houses than the crap they build now. And the terrace houses they built between 1850 and 1890 are still standing, still solid, while the weatherboard and red brick monstrosities are crumbling eyesores that are knocked down as quickly as the new owners get DA.
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. There were some shocking apartment blocks built in the 80s and 90s though, especially in Sydney, but the new blocks being built now are mostly pretty good build quality from what I have seen.
Utter tosh. You should try living in those units before you make stupid claims like that. Units built today are designed with the sole intention of being sold. They are unlivable, but they look nice on first impressions in the display unit so the developer can sell these pieces of crap off plan and move on. The build quality is awful, and as far as I can tell, for the most part doesn't meet code, but the government turns a blind eye because of the money involved.
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