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Iron ore - supply and demand rides again
Topic Started: 30 May 2014, 03:23 PM (44,296 Views)
newjez
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Mustapha Mond
16 Jun 2014, 10:54 AM
Yes that is true,
But scrap iron does not disappear.
One day it will start to increase in the % of use.
Every % increase in scrap iron use will decrease the amount of new iron required.
I know this will take time but it may become a trend.
Equilibrium in my view will be reached.

If a butterfly beats its wings just once every 1,000 years on mount Everest one day Mount Everest will be gone.

Peter
If you fuck up a painting of a horse and call it a donkey, that doesn't make it right.
Whenever you have an argument with someone, there comes a moment where you must ask yourself, whatever your political persuasion, 'am I the Nazi?'
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Foxy
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Zero is coming...

newjez
16 Jun 2014, 10:59 AM
If you fuck up a painting of a horse and call it a donkey, that doesn't make it right.
But does it make it left.

:D

Peter
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newjez
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Mustapha Mond
16 Jun 2014, 04:08 PM
But does it make it left.

:D

Peter
It might look like two donkeys which are facing both ways.
Whenever you have an argument with someone, there comes a moment where you must ask yourself, whatever your political persuasion, 'am I the Nazi?'
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miw
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Mustapha Mond
16 Jun 2014, 10:54 AM
Yes that is true,
But scrap iron does not disappear.
One day it will start to increase in the % of use.
Every % increase in scrap iron use will decrease the amount of new iron required.
I know this will take time but it may become a trend.
Equilibrium in my view will be reached.

If a butterfly beats its wings just once every 1,000 years on mount Everest one day Mount Everest will be gone.

Peter
Indeed. But it is a furphy to say that "someday the Chinese will start using scrap". Every bit of scrap produced already goes back into the arc furnaces. And there is already a lot of it. Buildings get demolished and cars get recycled.

Waste not want not.

newjez
16 Jun 2014, 04:30 PM
It might look like two donkeys which are facing both ways.
A pushmepullyou but with two arseholes?
Edited by miw, 16 Jun 2014, 04:38 PM.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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Perthite
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https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/business/wa/a/24242302/warning-for-wa-as-mining-pulls-back/

"tomorrows rust bucket"
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Foxy
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Zero is coming...

Frank Castle
16 Jun 2014, 10:59 AM
Thanks for the memory jolt :tu:


The number is always 1, just plus or minus.
Peter
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peter fraser
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Mustapha Mond
16 Jun 2014, 04:08 PM
But does it make it left.

:D

Peter
Scrap iron/steel produces only about 8% of the steel output.

http://www.worldsteel.org/media-centre/Steel-news/Steel-scrap--A-world-traded-commodity.html

There are many grades of steel produced, so the addition of scrap iron does present a difficulty for the manufacturer who requires a particular alloy composition and grade.

Edited by peter fraser, 16 Jun 2014, 05:11 PM.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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Foxy
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Zero is coming...

China, Singapore iron ore futures fall; tight credit curbs buying

Monday, 16 June 2014 10:51 Posted by Shoaib-ur-Rehman Siddiqui E-mailPrintPDFViews: 13
imageSINGAPORE: Iron ore futures in China and Singapore dropped on Monday to the lowest since their launch last year, reflecting plentiful supply and tighter credit that has slowed purchases by Chinese mills despite a more than 30 percent plunge in spot prices this year.
The weaker futures suggest spot iron ore prices could extend their drop to below $90 a tonne later in the day to touch a fresh low since September 2012.
"Liquidity is a big issue at the moment because many banks are not willing to open letters of credit," said an iron ore trader in Shanghai.
A probe into metal financing deals in China's Qingdao port has spurred caution among lenders, traders said, many of which have already been trimming their exposure to sectors plagued by overcapacity such as the steel sector.
Iron ore for delivery in September on the Dalian Commodity Exchange fell to as low as 658 yuan ($110) a tonne, its weakest since the bourse introduced the contract in October. It was down 0.6 percent at 661 yuan by midday.
The July iron ore contract on the Singapore Exchange dropped nearly 1 percent to $88.99 per tonne, its lowest since SGX launched the futures in April last year.
Iron ore for immediate delivery to China <.IO62-CNI=SI> fell 0.7 percent to $90.90 a tonne on Friday, its lowest since Sept. 7, 2012, according to data compiler Steel Index.
A break below the September 2012 trough of $86.70 will put spot iron ore closer to levels last seen in 2009.
Down more than 32 percent so far this year, iron ore prices have been largely dragged down by increased supply as miners led by Vale, Rio Tinto and BHP Billiton boost output to sell more to top market China.
But with the steep drop in iron ore prices potentially closing up to 80 million tonnes of domestic mine production in China, the top foreign miners stand to gain given their lower business costs, Wood Mackenzie analyst Andrew Hodge said.
Rio Tinto breaks even at around $43 a tonne, while rival Australian miner BHP needs a $45 iron ore price to stay in the black. Vale's is higher at $75 a tonne due to the greater distance from Brazil to China.
"Mills are buying in small lots and they keep on pushing prices down sharply," said an iron ore trader in Tianjin, adding a softer real estate market in China is also hurting demand for steel.
The most-active October rebar contract on the Shanghai Futures Exchange touched a low of 3,009 yuan a tonne, its weakest since the exchange launched rebar futures in March 2009.
That followed a further decline in spot steel prices in China over the weekend, with Tangshan billet falling 40 yuan to around 2,760 yuan per tonne, traders said.
High inventories of iron ore stocks at Chinese ports have also pushed mills to do "short rounds of restocking rather than aggressive restocking as seen in previous years", investment bank ANZ said in a note.
Copyright Reuters, 2014


http://www.brecorder.com/markets/commodities/asia/178971-china-singapore-iron-ore-futures-fall;-tight-credit-curbs-buying.html

Cock shot with a 12 gauge follow through to the balls.

Now thats got to hurt.


The July iron ore contract on the Singapore Exchange dropped nearly 1 percent to $88.99 per tonne

A break below the September 2012 trough of $86.70 will put spot iron ore closer to levels last seen in 2009.

Adjust this for inflation??? $60 per ton, hmmmm.



Peter

But how did Foxbat know??????
Edited by Foxy, 16 Jun 2014, 05:34 PM.
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miw
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peter fraser
16 Jun 2014, 05:10 PM
Scrap iron/steel produces only about 8% of the steel output.

http://www.worldsteel.org/media-centre/Steel-news/Steel-scrap--A-world-traded-commodity.html

There are many grades of steel produced, so the addition of scrap iron does present a difficulty for the manufacturer who requires a particular alloy composition and grade.
I remember getting a tour of a Krupps steel mill in Essen about 30 years ago. This mill operated on almost 100% scrap. They would throw the scrap in the blast furnace, analyse the result, and then add small quantities of ingredients to get what they wanted.

I imagine if China didn't exist, the percentage of scrap used globally would probably double.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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Foxy
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Zero is coming...

miw
16 Jun 2014, 05:51 PM
I remember getting a tour of a Krupps steel mill in Essen about 30 years ago. This mill operated on almost 100% scrap. They would throw the scrap in the blast furnace, analyse the result, and then add small quantities of ingredients to get what they wanted.

I imagine if China didn't exist, the percentage of scrap used globally would probably double.
Yes.

Peter
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