Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Reply
Global Warming: Glaciers, ice caps and ice sheets are collapsing, and it's unstoppable; How the planet's ice cover is being altered by climate change
Topic Started: 27 May 2014, 01:51 PM (22,668 Views)
Kulganis
Member Avatar


Mustapha Mond
28 Jun 2014, 10:40 AM
Al Gore is a very rich man now, he could have donated all that extra cash to stop global warming.
But did he??
Yeh right.
Oddly, he does...

All the profits from his books are pledged to the not-for-profit http://climaterealityproject.org/

He actually made his money selling Apple shares, selling the Cable TV network he owned, being a member of both the Apple and the Google board of directors, and he makes quite a nice dividend from http://www.generationim.com/strategy/ an investment managment company he and a former Goldman Sachs executive set up.

But sure, continue to make up drivel.
Shadow
28 Jun 2014, 10:44 AM
No, the IPCC predicted atmospheric warming - refer to the chart below.

But atmospheric temperatures are not still rising (hence the IPCC reference to the 'haitus' in their recent report).

Posted Image

'increases will enhance the greenhouse effect, resulting on average in an additional warming of the Earth's surface'

'increase of global mean temperature during the next century of about 0 3°C per decade'

'increase in global mean temperature of about 1°C above the present value by 2025'
Yes, the IPCC predicted warming, and that's what we got, just not as fast as they predicted.

Quote:
 
This doesn't change the fact that the sun causes warming... try the experiment I suggested if you don't believe me.
I don't think I've ever said that the sun does not cause warming. But it isn't the only, absolute, reason the planet is warming, the extra greenhouse gases that we are digging up, burning, and releasing into the atmosphere are causing a loopback effect. Why is this so terribly hard for you to understand?
Mustapha Mond
28 Jun 2014, 10:34 AM
oh no.

Peter
So, no thoughts? At all? I know I'm opening a can of worms, but I really want to know your take on it.
Edited by Kulganis, 28 Jun 2014, 10:59 AM.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Shadow
Member Avatar
Evil Mouzealot Specufestor

Kulganis
28 Jun 2014, 10:50 AM
Yes, the IPCC predicted warming, and that's what we got, just not as fast as they predicted
Since they made their original 1990 prediction of endless CO2 driven warming, we actually had just a few years of warming followed by almost two decades of no warming. The IPCC continue to repeat their endless warming prediction every few years, yet there has been no warming for almost two decades now, despite increasing emissions of CO2, which going by the IPCC's theory should have created even greater rates of warming than they predicted (their predictions were all based on CO2 emissions remaining the same, not rising). That's why the IPCC are currently scrambling to try and explain the unexpected hiatus.

Posted Image

Quote:
 
I don't think I've ever said that the sun does not cause warming
I showed you some charts showing a correlation between the sun and warming, and you started producing lawyer/suicide charts to imply that correlation does not mean causation. So you do finally accept that the sun causes warming, and that there is a correlation between sun spot activity and global temperatures?
Edited by Shadow, 28 Jun 2014, 11:18 AM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Kulganis
Member Avatar


Shadow
28 Jun 2014, 11:09 AM
Since they made their original 1990 prediction of endless CO2 driven warming, we actually had just a few years of warming followed by almost two decades of no warming. The IPCC continue to repeat their endless warming prediction every few years, yet there has been no warming for almost two decades now, despite increasing levels of CO2, which going by the IPCC's theory should have created even greater rates of warming than they predicted (their predictions were all based on CO2 emissions remaining the same, not rising).

Posted Image
Except, that, even your chart shows that there was warming, but because you seem to not understand the difference between anomalies and absolute temperature, you are reading it wrong.

Quote:
 
I showed you some charts showing a correlation between the sun and warming, and you started producing lawyer/suicide charts to imply that correlation does not mean causation. So you do finally accept that the sun causes warming, and that there is a correlation between sun spot activity and global temperatures?
I have never 'not accepted' that the sun causes warming. And yes, there is a correlation between number of sunspots and global temperatures, but this doesn't actually show that the sunspots cause the climate change. Just that they correlate.
Here's an awesome example...

The average surface temperature of the planet Mercury, is 167oC, it is about 57,910,000 km from the sun.

The average surface temperature of the planet Venus, is 462oC, it is about 108,200,000 km from the sun.

Do you know what causes Venus to be nearly 300oC hotter than Mercury, even though it is about twice as far from the sun?

The fact that the atmosphere of Venus is almost completely CO2
Edited by Kulganis, 28 Jun 2014, 11:34 AM.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Shadow
Member Avatar
Evil Mouzealot Specufestor

Kulganis
28 Jun 2014, 11:21 AM
Except, that, even your chart shows that there was warming, but because you seem to not understand the difference between anomalies and absolute temperature, you are reading it wrong.
Yes there was warming, but it nearly ended two decades ago. And it is you who is reading the chart incorrectly.

I suggest you google 'temperature anomaly' to better understand what it means. You appear to believe it's cumulative (it's not).

Quote:
 
there is a correlation between number of sunspots and global temperatures
Yes, the sun causes warming and there is a correlation between sun activity and global warming. It's funny how you accept this, yet prefer to believe human CO2 emissions cause global warming, despite the fact that there is no correlation between human CO2 emissions and global temperatures (CO2 levels have risen for the past two decades yet global temperatures have not).

So... one thing emits heat and correlates with global warming, so you disregard it as a cause of global warming.

Another thing doesn't emit heat and doesn't correlate with global warming, so you believe this thing causes global warming?

Seems illogical.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Kulganis
Member Avatar


Shadow
28 Jun 2014, 11:34 AM
Yes there was warming, but it nearly ended two decades ago. And it is you who is reading the chart incorrectly.

I suggest you google 'temperature anomaly' to better understand what it means. You appear to believe it's cumulative (it's not).


Yes, the sun causes warming and there is a correlation between sun activity and global warming. It's funny how you accept this, yet prefer to believe human CO2 emissions cause global warming, despite the fact that there is no correlation between human CO2 emissions and global temperatures (CO2 levels have risen for the past two decades yet global temperatures have not).

So... one thing emits heat and correlates with global warming, so you disregard it as a cause of global warming.

Another thing doesn't emit heat and doesn't correlate with global warming, so you believe this thing causes global warming?

Seems illogical.
Again, no, the warming didn't stop, no matter how much you might want to believe David Rose and the Daily Mail.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Shadow
Member Avatar
Evil Mouzealot Specufestor

Kulganis
28 Jun 2014, 11:41 AM
the warming didn't stop
Where is your data to show the warming didn't stop? You were reading the charts wrong, weren't you?

You thought the anomalies were cumulative, rather than simply depicting the current departure from a reference figure.

Quote:
 
no matter how much you might want to believe David Rose and the Daily Mail
I believe the official Met Office data that shows no atmospheric warming for almost two decades.

Even the IPCC accepts it (they refer to it as the 'hiatus').

Where is your data showing atmospheric warming over the period that the IPCC refer to as the 'hiatus'?

Posted Image
Edited by Shadow, 28 Jun 2014, 04:00 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Kulganis
Member Avatar


Shadow
28 Jun 2014, 11:50 AM
I believe the official Met Office data that shows no atmospheric warming for almost two decades.
How odd...

Quote:
 
The first decade of this century has been, by far, the warmest decade on the instrumental record.

New figures released today in Copenhagen show that - despite 1998 being the warmest individual year - the last ten years have clearly been the warmest period in the 160-year record of global surface temperature, maintained jointly by the Met Office Hadley Centre and the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia.

Similar results are revealed in the independent analyses made by the United State National Climatic Data Center and NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

These figures highlight that the world continues to see global temperature rise, most of which is due to increasing emissions of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, and clearly shows that the argument that global warming has stopped is flawed.

Separately, the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) has today revealed that 2009 looks set to become another top-ten warm year according to latest figures, with a provisional warming of 0.44 °C above the long-term average of 14.0 °C.

2009 has been warmer than 2008, owing to the emergence of El Niño conditions in the eastern tropical Pacific Ocean, and is expected to be the fifth-warmest year in the instrumental record that dates back to 1850.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/news/releases/archive/2009/warmest-decade
Official Met Office statement, on official Met office website, contradicts your belief.

Posted Image

Posted Image
Edited by Kulganis, 28 Jun 2014, 12:02 PM.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Shadow
Member Avatar
Evil Mouzealot Specufestor

Kulganis
28 Jun 2014, 12:00 PM
How odd...

the last ten years have clearly been the warmest period in the 160-year record...
You do realise that when something rises, then even after it stops rising, the final level will still be higher than the previous level?

Global temperatures stopped rising two decades ago, but are obviously still higher than in prior decades because prior to the hiatus, they did rise.

Here's a chart directly from the Met Office site. As you can see, the most recent decades have the highest temperatures, because temperatures rose prior to the most recent decades, but that doesn't change the fact that temperatures are no longer rising, and may even be falling...

Posted Image
Edited by Shadow, 28 Jun 2014, 12:15 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Kulganis
Member Avatar


You know what? You win, I give up, this is pointless. Have fun. (note, I don't agree with you, I just can't be arsed arguing about it)
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
peter fraser
Member Avatar


Shadow
28 Jun 2014, 12:08 PM
You do realise that when something rises, then even after it stops rising, the final level will still be higher than the previous level?

Global temperatures stopped rising two decades ago, but are obviously still higher than in prior decades because prior to the hiatus, they did rise.

Here's a chart directly from the Met Office site. As you can see, the most recent decades have the highest temperatures, because temperatures rose prior to the most recent decades, but that doesn't change the fact that temperatures are no longer rising, and may even be falling...

Posted Image
As in all graphs of this nature there are periods where rises haven't been pronounced and at other times they have been quite steep. Overall though the temperature has risen by a full degree. Why don't you believe that is significant and why can't you see the trend?

Bearing in mind the acceleration of that trend over the last 40 years.
Edited by peter fraser, 28 Jun 2014, 12:27 PM.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Australian Property Forum · Next Topic »
Reply



Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.

Forum Rules: The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.

Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.

Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.

This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.

For more information go to Limitations on Exclusive Rights: Fair Use

Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ

Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy