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Global Warming: Glaciers, ice caps and ice sheets are collapsing, and it's unstoppable; How the planet's ice cover is being altered by climate change
Topic Started: 27 May 2014, 01:51 PM (22,670 Views)
peter fraser
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Shadow
27 Jun 2014, 10:11 PM
I'm just telling you what the data says.

The data says there has been no atmospheric warming for two decades, that sea temperatures are falling, and that sea ice coverage has barely changed in 30 years.

The logical conclusion is that it's not getting warmer.
No you are telling me what you want to believe, but it's hardly data.

We have already shown you that ice can warm without any change in temperature.

as that ice melts into the oceans then yes the ocean temperature will fall.

Sea ice area coverage tells us nothing. You need to know the change in ice mass not the change in the surface area.

The logical conclusion is that you really have no idea about this subject, just an ability to cut and paste other peoples mistakes.

Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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Massive
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Shadow
27 Jun 2014, 10:00 PM
I'm adamant there has been no atmospheric warming, which was the IPCC's original method for determining global warming.

Of course that was before the IPCC realised atmospheric warming had stopped and decided the warming must be hiding in the ocean now.

The IPCC predictions (refer to chart below) were based on atmospheric warming...

The IPCC now concede they got it wrong.

There is also no evidence that the oceans are getting warmer. In fact they are getting colder, and global sea ice coverage hasn't really changed in 30 years...

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I'm adamant there has been no atmospheric warming, which was the IPCC's original method for determining global warming.

but scientists have found its apparent that this last decade the atmospheric heat gain has been transferred to the oceans... which has increased the latent heat in the same period the atmosphere has stayed the same temperature, courtesy of pacific cooling / la nina phenomena.


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Of course that was before the IPCC realised atmospheric warming had stopped and decided the warming must be hiding in the ocean now.

science is as much about observation as it is theory ... you cant create a theory without observation. and there is strong evidence now that La Nina effect has caused transfer of this heat to the oceans.

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The IPCC predictions (refer to chart below) were based on atmospheric warming...

so that makes global warming theory incorrect ?


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There is also no evidence that the oceans are getting warmer. In fact they are getting colder, and global sea ice coverage hasn't really changed in 30 years...

this is where you are flat out wrong..
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and global sea ice coverage hasn't really changed in 30 years..

do you understand why ? the sea ice IS melting away and its being replaced with huge sheets of ice sliding off the land masses .... your references dont refer to land ice mass, as it has deteriorated.

Posted Image
Posted Image
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Edited by Massive, 27 Jun 2014, 10:27 PM.
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peter fraser
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Massive
27 Jun 2014, 10:23 PM
do you understand why ? the sea ice IS melting away and its being replaced with huge sheets of ice sliding off the land masses .... your references dont refer to land ice mass, as it has deteriorated.
yes, it's the ice mass that matters not the surface area of the sea ice.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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Kulganis
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Shadow
27 Jun 2014, 10:11 PM
I'm just telling you what the data says.

The data says there has been no atmospheric warming for two decades, that sea temperatures are falling, and that sea ice coverage has barely changed in 30 years.

The logical conclusion is that it's not getting warmer.

To claim that it is actually getting warmer despite falling sea temperatures and stable atmospheric temperatures requires some pretty convoluted reasoning.

The simple answer is probably the most sensible one - i.e. the reason why the data shows no warming is because there is no warming.
I think I know where you're getting muddled up, almost all the graphs of warming, are showing anomalies, not absolute temperatures.

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In climate change studies, temperature anomalies are more important than absolute temperature. A temperature anomaly is the difference from an average, or baseline, temperature. The baseline temperature is typically computed by averaging 30 or more years of temperature data. A positive anomaly indicates the observed temperature was warmer than the baseline, while a negative anomaly indicates the observed temperature was cooler than the baseline. When calculating an average of absolute temperatures, things like station location or elevation will have an effect on the data (ex. higher elevations tend to be cooler than lower elevations and urban areas tend to be warmer than rural areas). However, when looking at anomalies, those factors are less critical. For example, a summer month over an area may be cooler than average, both at a mountain top and in a nearby valley, but the absolute temperatures will be quite different at the two locations.

Using anomalies also helps minimize problems when stations are added, removed, or missing from the monitoring network.

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/dyk/anomalies-vs-temperature
Edited by Kulganis, 27 Jun 2014, 10:39 PM.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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Foxy
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Zero is coming...

Kulganis
27 Jun 2014, 05:40 PM
What do you think about him joining Clive Palmer on stage the other day?
Well maybe the global warming gig is running out of steam so he is putting his feelers out.

He seems to like money and the things it can buy.

Peter
Kulganis
27 Jun 2014, 10:37 PM
I think I know where you're getting muddled up, almost all the graphs of warming, are showing anomalies, not absolute temperatures.

Posted Image
can we get a longer time line??

Say 1 million years??

Peter
Edited by Foxy, 27 Jun 2014, 11:29 PM.
http://www.afr.com/content/dam/images/g/n/2/1/u/8/image.imgtype.afrArticleInline.620x0.png/1456285515560.png
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Kulganis
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Mustapha Mond
27 Jun 2014, 11:27 PM
Well maybe the global warming gig is running out of steam so he is putting his feelers out.

He seems to like money and the things it can buy.

Peter
You're a moron. :re:
Mustapha Mond
27 Jun 2014, 11:27 PM
can we get a longer time line??

Say 1 million years??

Peter
We can do better...

550 million years...

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But before you whoop about the temperature being a lot higher 10 million years ago, you should remember that humanity has evolved to live in the last 200,000 years. I have no doubt that there will be humans living if temperatures rise, but will civilisation be intact? I highly doubt it.
Edited by Kulganis, 27 Jun 2014, 11:38 PM.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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Foxy
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Zero is coming...

My family coming from Nordic countries, global warming??
You are one crazy mf.

Hey mom it's 60 below, must be that global warming again son.


How would Russian's think about global warming??

Particularly with an ice age about to start.

Man you got to stop repeating populist propaganda.

There is no global warming.
There is no Easter Bunny and sad to say it no Father Christmas.

At least not in my world.



Peter
http://www.afr.com/content/dam/images/g/n/2/1/u/8/image.imgtype.afrArticleInline.620x0.png/1456285515560.png
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Kulganis
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Mustapha Mond
28 Jun 2014, 12:01 AM
There is no global warming.
There is no Easter Bunny and sad to say it no Father Christmas.

At least not in my world.

Peter
I just have to ask, as a test question, what are your thoughts on the Y2K bug?
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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Shadow
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Evil Mouzealot Specufestor

Kulganis
27 Jun 2014, 10:17 PM
they are admitting that some of the models they used were not as accurate as they had hoped
Yes, their models were wrong - they thought atmospheric temperatures would keep rising - hence the scramble to find excuses for the 'hiatus' as they're calling it.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Kulganis
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Shadow
28 Jun 2014, 08:46 AM
Yes, their models were wrong - they thought atmospheric temperatures would keep rising - hence the scramble to find excuses for the 'hiatus' as they're calling it.
No, you're confusing 'almost all' to mean 'all', which it doesn't, some of their models were right.

Just like some of their projections were correct, perhaps not the 'worst case scenarios' that you focus on, but that's the thing, they were, 'worst case scenarios', there were scenarios that were 'best case scenarios' and unfortunately, it seems we may be beyond those.
Edited by Kulganis, 28 Jun 2014, 08:52 AM.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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