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Global Warming: Glaciers, ice caps and ice sheets are collapsing, and it's unstoppable; How the planet's ice cover is being altered by climate change
Topic Started: 27 May 2014, 01:51 PM (22,684 Views)
roberto
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Kulganis
26 Jun 2014, 08:46 PM
roberto
26 Jun 2014, 08:18 PM
The Myth of the Climate Change '97%'
Written by Joseph Bast and Roy Spencer, Wall Street Journal on May 28, 2014.

It's worse than that, people should just stop reading once they see the name Joseph Bast...

Joseph Bast is the co-founder, president and CEO of the Heartland Institute, a think tank/PR firm funded by big business interests.
Yes it's all very involved isn't it.
Here is some of the story, from an article in the Guardian that sheds a little light on thee subject.

Quote:
 

97% global warming consensus meets resistance from scientific denialism
The robust climate consensus faces resistance from conspiracy theories, cherry picking, and misrepresentations


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/may/28/global-warming-consensus-climate-denialism-characteristics

The Skeptical Science survey finding 97% expert consensus on human-caused global warming has drawn an incredible amount of media attention. Hundreds of media stories documented our survey and results. Lead author John Cook and I participated in a number of interviews to discuss the paper, including on Al Jazeera, CNN, and ABC. President Obama even Tweeted about our results to his 31 million followers.
The story has been so popular mainly because our results present a simple but critical message. There is a wide gap between the public awareness and the reality of the expert consensus on human-caused global warming.


Opponents of climate action have been aware of the powerful influence of the scientific consensus for decades. As far back as 1991, Western Fuels Association launched a $510,000 campaign to "reposition global warming as theory (not fact)" in the public perception. A memo from communications strategist Frank Luntz leaked in 2002 advised Republicans "to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate."

Thus although our results were straightforward and consistent with previous research, we were not surprised when they met with resistance from certain groups, and anticipated the critiques with an FAQ. However, in reviewing the various criticisms of our paper, we noticed some common threads amongst them. A 2009 paper published in the European Journal of Public Health by Pascal Diethelm and Martin McKee discussed five characteristics common to scientific denialism:
1) Cherry picking;
2) Fake experts;
3) Misrepresentation and logical fallacies.
4) Impossible expectations of what research can deliver; and
5) Conspiracy theories;
These characteristics were present throughout the criticisms of our paper, and in fact we found examples of each of the five characteristics among them...

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Shadow
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roberto
26 Jun 2014, 09:07 PM
The Skeptical Science survey finding 97% expert consensus on human-caused global warming
As somebody else said, claiming that 97% of experts are in complete agreement about ANYTHING is pretty ridiculous to begin with.

But then we just need to remember that the claim is being made by Skeptical Science, a group dedicated to creating global warming panic.

The other surveys are far more reasonable, sensible and believable, with about half of scientists saying climate change is mostly human-caused.
Edited by Shadow, 26 Jun 2014, 09:14 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Massive
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Shadow
26 Jun 2014, 09:05 PM
If the oceans are getting so much warmer then why all the extra sea ice?

Why did CO2 cause atmospheric warming for 100 years, but then 20 years ago it suddenly started causing ocean warming instead?

No doubt when the oceans start cooling they will tell us the warming has started hiding under mountains.

i do not know the answers... but i go further than an article from "The Australian" to get my information on polar ice.

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/wordpress/research/projects/arctic-sea-ice-volume-anomaly/
Quote:
 
The 2014 ice volume reached its annual maximum in April with 22,900 km3 which is just slightly below the long term trend and is the second lowest on record; just 400 km3 above the previous April minimum which occurred in 2011. However, variations over the last 4-years are well within the error bars of the volume estimates so that inter-annual variability over this period maybe due to errors in the sea ice reanalysis.


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http://www.skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice.htm
Quote:
 

Skeptic arguments that Antarctica is gaining ice frequently hinge on an error of omission, namely ignoring the difference between land ice and sea ice.

Antarctic land ice is the ice which has accumulated over thousands of years on the Antarctica landmass itself through snowfall. This land ice therefore is actually stored ocean water that once fell as precipitation. Sea ice in Antarctica is quite different as it is ice which forms in salt water primarily during the winter months. When land ice melts and flows into the oceans global sea levels rise on average; when sea ice melts sea levels do not change measurably.

In Antarctica, sea ice grows quite extensively during winter but nearly completely melts away during the summer (Figure 1). That is where the important difference between Antarctic and Arctic sea ice exists as much of the Arctic's sea ice lasts all the year round. During the winter months it increases and before decreasing during the summer months, but an ice cover does in fact remain in the North which includes quite a bit of ice from previous years (Figure 1). Essentially Arctic sea ice is more important for the earth's energy balance because when it increasingly melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the oceans whereas Antarctic sea ice normally melts each summer leaving the earth's energy balance largely unchanged.

Edited by Massive, 26 Jun 2014, 09:16 PM.
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Shadow
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Why did CO2 cause atmospheric warming for 100 years, but then 20 years ago it suddenly started causing ocean warming instead?

Quote:
 
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_globalwarmingpseudo131.htm

The global sea ice extent today (combined sea ice at both Poles) is nearly the same as the average of the last 30 years according to NASA and NSIDC:

Posted Image

Quote:
 
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_globalwarmingpseudo131.htm

NSIDC/NASA AMSR-E also shows that the overall trend of ocean temperatures since 2002 is one of cooling in spite of a recent short lived El NiƱo warming event:

Posted Image

Quote:
 
Edited by Shadow, 26 Jun 2014, 09:19 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Massive
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Shadow
26 Jun 2014, 09:16 PM
Why did CO2 cause atmospheric warming for 100 years, but then 20 years ago it suddenly started causing ocean warming instead?







again, im no expert on global warming... but i do have a bullshit-o-meter that goes off from time to time..


antarctic sea ice is increasing as arctic sea ice reduces which is causing the ice mass to be level..

Posted Image

but at the same time.. antarctic ice mass ( land) is reducing
Posted Image
Edited by Massive, 26 Jun 2014, 09:28 PM.
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Kulganis
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Shadow
26 Jun 2014, 08:58 PM
If the oceans are getting so much warmer then why all the extra sea ice?
It's crazy isn't it?

Not only is the ocean around Antarctica warming, but it's apparently warming faster than the rest of the oceans...

But, warming 0.17oC on average over a decade when the average is a negative number still results in freezing water.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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Massive
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and here is a sea surface temp chart for extended period

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Edited by Massive, 26 Jun 2014, 09:33 PM.
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Investor888
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Massive
26 Jun 2014, 08:47 PM
he has said quite clearly he doesn't belive it is happening right now...

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Mate, read up of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO), and Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO), both 30-40yr cycles of warming and cooling of the oceans. The PDO was positive phase (warming) from 1970's to about 2005. It has now gone into negative phase. The AMO is still in positive phase, and is expected to go into negative phase in around 2023.
It's not man-made global warming. It's a natural 30-40yr cycle of the Ocean systems. You'll be able to look at your graph in 10yrs time, and see a downward trend with both the PDO and AMO in negative phase.

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SteveC
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Shadow
26 Jun 2014, 09:12 PM
As somebody else said, claiming that 97% of experts are in complete agreement about ANYTHING is pretty ridiculous to begin with.

Couldn't let this bullshit go without comment. Polio vaccinations, hyperinflation, smoking, driving while drunk, having unprotected sex in a Nairobi brothel; the list is endless where 97% plus of experts agree on things.
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Massive
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Investor888
26 Jun 2014, 09:33 PM
Mate, read up of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO), and Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO), both 30-40yr cycles of warming and cooling of the oceans. The PDO was positive phase (warming) from 1970's to about 2005. It has now gone into negative phase. The AMO is still in positive phase, and is expected to go into negative phase in around 2023.
It's not man-made global warming. It's a natural 30-40yr cycle of the Ocean systems. You'll be able to look at your graph in 10yrs time, and see a downward trend with both the PDO and AMO in negative phase.

Posted Image
and do you notice a general trend line since 1900's ?
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