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Brainlike Computers, Learning From Experience; More Stereotypes Shattered
Topic Started: 29 Dec 2013, 04:59 PM (1,935 Views)
Count du Monet
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People once stated, quite matter of factually, that rockets will never leave the earths atmosphere, and now we have hundreds of satellites and probes all whizzing happily through space.


Other people stated that long before the present we would have already colonized Mars!

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Kulganis
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So you somehow equate "haven't yet" with "won't" or "can't"?

Funny you should mention the colonisation of Mars...

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In 2011 Bas Lansdorp and Arno Wielders lay the foundation of the Mars One mission plan. Discussion meetings are held with potential suppliers of aerospace components in USA, Canada, Italy and United Kingdom. Mission architecture, budgets and timelines are solidified from feedback of supplier engineers and business developers. A baseline design for a mission of permanent human settlement on Mars achievable with existing technology is the result.
- See more at: http://www.mars-one.com/mission/roadmap#sthash.JAuY0eOB.dpuf
This isn't a movie (though it is meant to be the worlds most expensive reality TV show, I might actually buy a TV to watch this one though), the first batch of applicants are set to begin training in 2015.

Just because we're not already in a Jetsons style world doesn't mean we'll never be in a Jetsons style world.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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skamy
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Count du Monet
29 Dec 2013, 10:33 PM
Computers run on mathematics. We might assume that biological brains have a pure mathematical basis, but we don't that. The assumption is the cosmos is purely machine, but don't know that.

Being means "presence", more specifically, a "knowing" presence.

We certainly have something we describe as a "soul", whether it is metaphysical is another question.

For Max Stirner an atheist defined as spiritual all those things that are less obviously material. If we look for food, that might be a material aim. But creating a abstract painting might be defined as a spiritual activity, because the ambition is not so immediately material.

Stirner defined much manifestation as a "dynamic", something created by opposites that itself may not be reducible. Nietzsche came to similar conclusions even though it seems he did not study Stirner.

We go back to Hume for warnings about assuming principles in relation to appearance.

Heidegger expanded on these views greatly.

Artificial intelligence has so far remained in the realm of science fiction.



The task is massive, that is the problem. I am probably with you on your thoughts here, I see nothing new in this tale. I published several papers in the 80s and 90s on machine learning, I even published some research on neural networks and the main issues back then were a) humans store vast amounts of learning from childhood onwards and b) any brief study of philosophy of science will show how poorly we understand human intelligence and human learning techniques. We compared standard statistical pattern recognition methods and none of the AI methods offered much improvement on these at that time.
Never the less the topic is interesting and it is great to see young people having a go again. AI kinda went outta fashion with the new millennium.
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993
The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
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Count du Monet
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Kulganis
29 Dec 2013, 11:25 PM
So you somehow equate "haven't yet" with "won't" or "can't"?

Funny you should mention the colonisation of Mars...


A manned base could be built on Mars, but only at enormous cost. One on the moon would be enormously costly as well but only at the fraction of the cost of Mars. Merely building the launch vehicles to recreate the Apollo missions would cost a trillion dollars let alone the other costs associated with a Space Mission. The cost really comes down to this, how much weight to you wish to send how far?

The Space mission plus the Vietnam war almost bankrupted the US by the 1970's even though it was at a unique point of economic strength. The problem is rockets are still much the same thing as in the 1960's. The only advantages today are some lighter fabrications. The great advance was in Nazi land when they discovered how to build a ballistic missile that didn't melt its combustion chamber. And this is achieved by essentially wasting large amounts of fuel.

Standard combustion just don't hack it!

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“MOON ROCKET MISSES TARGET BY 238,7991⁄2 MILES.” On March 16,1926,




They closed down Major Tom in the 70's. "Too much innovation!"

We could always send Mel to Mars?

Edited by Count du Monet, 30 Dec 2013, 08:38 AM.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
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Kulganis
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More movie references, you do know that movies aren't real don't you?

And a trillion dollars? where did you pull that figure from?

The Mars One company estimates that the cost of the first mission will total around $6 billion and $4 billion for each subsequent mission.

But of course, you didn't even bother to look at their website.

Basically you're saying "Look at that baby, it will never run a marathon, look at its tiny legs" which is the most stupid thing I've ever heard.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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Count du Monet
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More movie references, you do know that movies aren't real don't you?


No idea is a reality, except maybe in mathematics and they aren't too sure about that either!

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A one-way trip, excluding the cost of maintaining four astronauts on Mars until they die, is claimed to cost approximately 6 billion USD.[21] Lansdorp has declined questions regarding the cost estimate because he believes "it would be very stupid for us to give the prices that have been quoted per component".[22] For comparison, an "austere" manned Mars mission (including a temporary stay followed by a return of the astronauts) proposed by NASA in 2009 had a projected cost of 100 billion USD after an 18-year program.


Well Nasa says a hundred billion for the shot, but that doesn't include the rest of the program.

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But of course, you didn't even bother to look at their website.


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Kulganis
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The Mars One project requires no new technology, simply because they propose that it's going to be a one way trip, the NASA project has a return trip, which means they need to develop the return craft, this is the major component of the $100 billion, but still it's far short of your out-of-arse number of $1 trillion.

I'm not sure what costs could possibly be involved in an autonomous colony on mars, I mean, the astronauts wouldn't be paid (what would they spend their money on?), the economy would mostly be one of communism, where everyone pitches in to help each other out.

Movies aren't even ideas, they're fantasies, something that will never be, whereas these ideas are being worked on to be a reality.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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zaph
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Kulganis
30 Dec 2013, 01:29 PM
what would they spend their money on?
Mars bars??
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Count du Monet
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Kulganis
30 Dec 2013, 01:29 PM
The Mars One project requires no new technology, simply because they propose that it's going to be a one way trip, the NASA project has a return trip, which means they need to develop the return craft, this is the major component of the $100 billion, but still it's far short of your out-of-arse number of $1 trillion.

That's 100 billion a shot, you get to do a dance on Mars. The Mars program would cost a whole lot more than 1 trillion. That figure is for a moon program.

Do you ever bother to read things carefully.
Kulganis
30 Dec 2013, 01:29 PM


Movies aren't even ideas, they're fantasies, something that will never be, whereas these ideas are being worked on to be a reality.
All ideas are fantasies, apparently your pet cat believes they are the peak of Cosmic evolution?
Edited by Count du Monet, 30 Dec 2013, 01:50 PM.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
You are no longer customer, you are property!!!

Don't be SAUCY with me Bernaisse
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Kulganis
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Count du Monet
30 Dec 2013, 01:48 PM
Do you ever bother to read things carefully.
Nope, not really, your ramblings aren't too important to me, much like Black Panther and Mustapha Mond to be honest, just another imbecile who happens to think he's great.

$1 trillion for a moon project, but $100 billion for a Mars project? One would think that those numbers are mixed up, wouldn't it be far cheaper to get to a place we've already been, than a place that at it's closest is 54.6 million km, the moon is only 384,400 km from earth.
Edited by Kulganis, 30 Dec 2013, 01:58 PM.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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